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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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August Spies wrote:
iF the bible is flawed about that what else is it flawed about?


if it were correctly translated from hebrew, "the old testament" would really be "the old covenant". a lot is lost in translation, and some people are stupid.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:42 pm
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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All of you are being really prideful and have reduced this post to mere arguing...

I just read through nine threads and some good points were brought up...

Craig, you have a limited knowledge of Christianity IT SEEMS...I could be wrong...But you allow faith to fill the gaps...But get deeper and know your scripture...THE word moves and convicts not YOUR words...

August Spies...I went from seeing you having some approachable points to your immature name calling and points founded on research not on your own but on that of others...

"the god of the old testement appeared a lot, the god of the new testement didn't though... so I would say he is right.

Okay now hopefully he can answer my question."

You referring to THE god of one and THE god of the other sounds like you speak of two separate entities...When in fact there is ONE god...Also I believe you were referencing that God's presence was not in the new testament...What about how Jesus WAS GOD IN THE FLESH...Sent by God...Did miracles through God...Prayed to God...

1 John 4:2 "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God"

Yes the Bible was physically written by man, but it IS perfect...Because God kept his hand in the mix the WHOLE time...That's why you can't find any contradictions...Think about it...If you could control EVERYTHING in this WHOLE universe, don't you think you could keep the very beings YOU created, no matter how CORRUPT, from messing up a message or point you want to get across? The fact that that you think this could happen does NOT challenge your belief in the BIBLE so to speak, but in GOD'S existance period or his abilities...Do you think he is limited in his power?

2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is God­ breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

------------------------

Back to the root topic...It is not about what a MAJORITY of what people who CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS believe that makes something a part of Christianity...But what the BIBLE says about something or not...

For this site to be used as a referense for ALL christians is ridiculous...The truth is the bible doesn't really use "christian" but about three times...but uses "disciple" a couple hundred times...Because it isn't about the religion...It's about your soul...

As far as tatooing goes, it is a thing God leaves up to the person to decide...When Jesus died the old laws and traditions of the old covenant were done away with...PRINCIPALS remained the same (living a life in your best ability free of sin, having favor in the eyes of God), but the ways to go about being with God became a little different...How can I prove this?

Matthew 27:51 - "At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split."

Mark 15:38 - "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

Luke 23:45 - "for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two."

What do these scriptures of the curtain being torn have to do with anything? Well back in the old testament, you couldn't have a direct relationship with God so to speak...Sacrafices were given to priests as well as prayers which were all done behind a temple curtain carried out by a priest...When Jesus died the curtain was torn because the ULTIMATE CONTINUING SACRAFICE became Jesus instead of the lamb or fattened calf or what have you...Jesus' death was the link to allow a direct relationship with God through prayer and other areas of life...

So this proves that a NEW standard of relationship with God had been set...No more tradition...

Now the law of having no marks and what not WAS true...But like someone stated earlier it was so God's people wouldn't be identified with the idolaters...Much like circumcision was not a foolish pointless practice but a law God made looking out for his people because he knew circumcision would result in less possible disease...But even circumcision is optional in the new covenant...Much like we are arguing over the tattoos the people in the 1st Century church argued over old practices such as circumcision...But there was no longer the need for circumcision by the time jesus had come...It was about the heart behind the action now...Not just the action itself...Proof:

Romans 3:30 - "since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith."

Romans 2:27 - "The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker."

1 Corinthians 7:18 - "Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised."

Galatians 6:13 - "Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh."

Galatians and Romans are CHALKFUL of this argument...But we clearly see that it is about the heart now and not just mindlessly doing the outward things...So in the same way the tattoo is not wrong or right...It is all about your conviction in your heart...Just because one doesn't have a tatoo doesn't make him/her right with God...

Oh...By the way...The freedom God gives us is freedom from sin...Not really just to do whatever we want...We are ABLE to do what ever we want...but the freedom as disciples is the freedom not to be bound by sin any longer...

I'm out...thanks for your time...
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:58 pm
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The Dude Abides



Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 334
Location: Miami, Fl
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that was amazing.

There's that one preacher that's supposed to be all cool with tattoos and shit. He appears at cornerstone and all that. He's the son of one of the televangelists. I forget his name, but he's punk.


By the by, did anyone see HELL HOUSE? The documentary?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:01 pm
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
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"but he's punk"

Funny...
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:04 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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The Dude Abides wrote:
that was amazing.

There's that one preacher that's supposed to be all cool with tattoos and shit. He appears at cornerstone and all that. He's the son of one of the televangelists. I forget his name, but he's punk.



He speaks in tongues right and has all kinds of piercings as well?

Brian
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:05 pm
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duke_city



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Location: San Diego,CA
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One more verse to add to what Doctrine hinted at with his post displaying the further breakdown of the traditions and practices in the Old Testement and the installment of new ones with the arrival of Jesus Christ.


Romans 2:29

"No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code"

Brian
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:14 pm
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Doctrine



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'Atta boy...

It is important to use scripture and not just talk out of opinion...
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:16 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Quote:

You referring to THE god of one and THE god of the other sounds like you speak of two separate entities...When in fact there is ONE god...


No, I believe the old tesetment and the new testement are mythology. They are fiction. The two gods, while nominally the same, are radically different in the two books. They act differently and have different personalities. So I consider them to be two seperate characters.


Quote:

Yes the Bible was physically written by man, but it IS perfect...Because God kept his hand in the mix the WHOLE time...That's why you can't find any contradictions...

I am glad you are consistant and rightfully claim that the bible should be perfect. However you are obviously wrong that I "can't find any contradictions." I can find tons, and I listed several already.


Quote:

It is not about what a MAJORITY of what people who CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS believe that makes something a part of Christianity...But what the BIBLE says about something or not...

I agree, though most christians here seem to be taking a different stance.


Last edited by August Spies on Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:17 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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The Dude Abides wrote:
There's that one preacher that's supposed to be all cool with tattoos and shit. He appears at cornerstone and all that. He's the son of one of the televangelists. I forget his name, but he's punk.


no preacher is punk. I promise you.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:19 pm
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
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Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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That's what I though was so funny...

Even if he was I bet it's some "youth outreach" tactic...Seriously...Punk?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:21 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
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Location: San Diego,CA
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August Spies

Look how convenient is your stance in this discussion.

You admitted yourself have no idea what spiritual truth is. So whats with the huge push to take pot shots and nitpick at every possible opportunity on everyone elses take on it?

By you not adhering to anything in particular that automatically empowers you. No ability to contrast with your own belief exists as you have none.

Or is it you just love to argue?

Brian


Last edited by duke_city on Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:22 pm
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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August Spies wrote:
No, I believe the old tesetment and the new testement are mythology. They are fiction. The two gods, while nominally the same, are radically different in the two books. They act differently and have different personalities. So I consider them to be two seperate characters.


thats beacuse the dude who plays God in the old testament was cast as jesus in the sequel. duh.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:23 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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What is my stance?
when did I ever say anything about spiritual truth?
what are you talking about?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:23 pm
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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dallasbboy wrote:
August Spies

Look how convenient is your stance in this discussion.

You admitted yourself have no idea what spiritual truth is. So whats with the huge push to take pot shots and nitpick at every possible opportunity on everyone elses take on it?

By you not adhering to anything in particular that automatically empowers you. No ability to contrast with your own belief exists as you have none.

Or is it you just love to argue?

Brian


what is it with people on this forum and starting shit.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:24 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Doctrine if you don't think there are any contradictions in the bible mind explaining this:

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

The first says man was created after animals, the second says man was created before.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:27 pm
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