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for those that think there are no absolutes
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Absurd_Life



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 377
Location: Minneapolis
Re: for those that think there are no absolutes  Reply with quote  

RandomSurge wrote:
and I'm one as well...I really don't
"Everything is bad in excess"

And I've had a really hard time coming up with anything that is not...concerning humans specifically of course

don't say "There can't be too much universe can there?!?!"


I'm not sure if that statement can be made into disproof because it's 100% subjective. I thihnk non-absolutism is about that you can't KNOW anything 100%. I can't be 100% sure that I even exist or what happens when I die so how the hell am I supposed to know anything else for sure without making some assumptions?


I do agree w/ ramdon surge though. Someone tries to start a discussion for real and everone just bullshits through it.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:28 am
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Machiavel



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 766
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your whole approach to this absolute stuff is silly RS, first off no matter how you try to prove ther is an absolute in that everything is bad in excess, you will always have the linguistics to deal with.

By your deffenition of excess, everything in excess will be bad. Im assuming your deffinition of excess is "too much", and by too much you mean enough so that part of the quantity is unwanted or at least not good.

The only thing you have proved is that your deffenition of excess holds for all things. at least thats the way i see it. I dont see how you can argue that this is an absolute as it is just reliant on your deffenition of excess. I mean you might as well have said something like "some things are bad in moderation" as its logically the same thing as "everything is bad in excess" ... does that mean that "some things are bad in moderation" is also an absolute?

Also, everything doesnt exist 100% of the time, go into particle physics.

in fact in all honesty i can only think of one absolute and that is gravity, or the constant of gravitaion.

And yes RS, no thread can go 4 pages without degrading into pretty much nothingness.

oh yeah and the "i think therefore i am" is part of a 'proof' for the existance of god, it was a proff by recursive doubt, i forget where its flawed axiom was...
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:31 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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Well the whole point of me posting this here is to see what other people could put on the table

cause I obviously could go all day by myself and be like "well this doesn't work, and this doesn't work"

but I never once thought that I had come up with something...I was just playing with the idea, as you can see by me asking "spies" if I "had something here"

this is why I asked people if they could come up with anything themselves...because I myself was stumped. If nobody else could come up with anything, then I simply thought that I might be going somewhere with this

And I definitely don't think I was going on my own definition of excess. Excess is a simple term that everybody understands and if you know the english language there is very little argument to be made as to what it actually means. Yes doing something in excess means doing it too much. That's not something I came up with, english isn't even my first language. I mean, I JUST looked it up in the english dictionary and it agrees with me. I hadn't done that before. So I don't see where you're coming from with this "MY definition of excess" thing

Yes there are subjective levels as to what "too much" constitutes but I say we all can agree that if something is fucking with your most basic actions and interactions...then something might be up...that's not some strange thing I came up with out of nowhere

and obviously everything is limited by linguistics...that doesn't mean that we can't understand each other and come to conclusions on certain matters.

So yeah, I don't think where the "silly" comes into play

Besides me thinking about shit that very few people give two shits about
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:25 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
Re: for those that think there are no absolutes  Reply with quote  

Absurd_Life wrote:
I can't be 100% sure that I even exist or what happens when I die so how the hell am I supposed to know anything else for sure without making some assumptions?



I think everybody can agree that these are problematic matters...to which nobody has real answers to

but that still doesn't mean there can't be some very basic and human specific truths that hold in all cases

I mean, I didn't used to think so, but now I'm more open to the idea since the excess thing STILL has me stupped since to this point nobody has been able to SUCCESSFULLY PROVE that something is not bad in excess

I'm not saying there isn't something...I'm saying show it to me and prove it to be as such...and saying you don't understand my replies in rebuttal don't get you nowhere...especially when other people understood them just fine and you are a well known ignoramous and childish person who holds 1 sided e-beef and keeps quotes of somebody telling you off over a month ago even after you said you didn't take them seriously

yeah...

Spies asked me to explain myself a little better and I had no problems breaking down what I was saying...as long as something actually really wants to know just what the hell I was talking about

but if you're just gonna say "uhh I don't understand that so you're wrong"...I don't even think I need to bother with that

though like I said, the learning thing seemed to be going somewhere for bit...and if somebody can still back it up I'm more that willing to "listen" to what you got to say

Hey I'm stuck here without an answer so I'm willing to read anybody's response...unless of course they're completely fucking mindless like the the many examples we have already seen
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:36 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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No way do I have the time to pore through this thread, even if I wanted to. I apologize if I am repeating a point that has already been made. But to me, the entire point of abolishing absolutes (aka, "there are no rules anywhere") is to liberate you from excessive scrutizination, not to add more. Saying there are no absolutes is the same as saying that you can make anything an absolute, if you want to. Then you can measure all of your actions against this absolute and put yourself in a perpetual ethical and moral deficit--or, if the absolute is very banal and facile, put yourself in perpetual moral and ethical surplus. That's how I look at it, anyway. Funny thing is, devoutly religious people see their absolutism as liberating for the opposite reason. Different strokes for different folks, that's all.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:13 am
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
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RandomSurge asked what wasnt bad in excess. I said learning. He tried to make a point, it didnt work. I called him on it, he got mad and started complaining about the direction of the board.

Surge had the nerve to say that he doesnt try to win arguments, me and HGH laughed oursleves to bed after that one.

Its that simple folks!
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:14 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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human's right. give it up random surge, it's not that even in excess, learning is good. it's that you CANNOT have learning in excess.

surge, by calling him immature for DEBATING a point, you only show your own childishness. he was not starting beef with you in any way.

the voice of reason has spoken. suck it up son.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:04 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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Well, when one learns so much that everything learned contradics something else that has been learned, isn't that to excess? Or does it merely point out the fact that there are no absolutes?

Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:05 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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Too much happiness?
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:12 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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then you learn.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:14 am
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Hellen Earth
could be a girl. could be a guy.


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1280
Location: Fitchburg, MA
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paradox - A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:46 am
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
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Ah, no more time left at work. I will post later.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:17 am
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
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Reggie wrote:
Well, when one learns so much that everything learned contradics something else that has been learned, isn't that to excess? Or does it merely point out the fact that there are no absolutes?




So do you see how Surges logic is flawed?

You can say that you will come to a point with learning where you learn there are no absolutes. But isnt that coming to a point of absolute learning??

The whole theory is flawed and its impossible to answer, just like god.

Anyways, the original question was what is something that you cant have an excess of, learning is it. Its the answer to this quirky theory.

Learning is everything and nothing. At the point of absolute learning you will realise you know nothing because nothing is absolute, but youve hit a point of absolute learning.

Now put shit in your mouth and shut up.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:25 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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You are saying that the absolute point of learning is to understand that there are no absolutes. But what if it isn't? What if, through the course of learning, you should come to know God? What if you are supposed to figure out that man is inherently flawed and nothing else?
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:55 am
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hugh grants hooker
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you remember that 'revenge of the nerds' movie when they are all sitting around and oger tries to be profound by just saying "What if c.a.t. actually spells dog"?

thats what this thread reminds me of.
Post Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:13 am
 

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