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spirituality, where do you stand?
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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i have never felt fear. only dissapointment with myself when i've done something that i know is wrong, and love.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:23 am
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juba



Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Cleveland,OH
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whats up yall this Jacob from Cleveland, OH
i just wanted to express my thoughts...

i grew up into a Lutheran Christian family and yes i do believe in God...but iam 23 years old now and i would never label myself a certain relgion...the Lutheran Church introduced me to God...i believe theres one God, and only one God...and theres alot of religions that can introduce you to him...once you feel him...you will know...he reaches people in all different ways...

ONE GOD AND ONLY ONE GOD!!!
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:43 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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FoJaR wrote:
i have never felt fear. only dissapointment with myself when i've done something that i know is wrong, and love.


Then you have no need for religion to begin with.

- Shane
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:50 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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juba wrote:
whats up yall this Jacob from Cleveland, OH
i just wanted to express my thoughts...

i grew up into a Lutheran Christian family and yes i do believe in God...but iam 23 years old now and i would never label myself a certain relgion...the Lutheran Church introduced me to God...i believe theres one God, and only one God...and theres alot of religions that can introduce you to him...once you feel him...you will know...he reaches people in all different ways...

ONE GOD AND ONLY ONE GOD!!!


Ah yes. One God.

That God is being recalled. The wars, famines, diseases and whatnot are getting the general population quite upset.

Current candidates for One God:

Keeanu Reeves - D
Campaign Slogan: "Woah, dude."
Position on Abortion: "Woah."
Position on Immigration: "Vin Diesel totally woops ass, dude."
Position on Military Funding: "Woah, they have kickass guns!"

Mike Tyson - R
Campaign Slogan: "I'll eat ya children!"
Position on Abortion: "I'll eat ya children!"
Position on Immigration: "I'll eat ya children!"
Position on Military Funding: "I'll eat ya children!"

Bob Dylan - I
Campaign Slogan: "<unintelligble>"
Position on Abortion: "Not up to me."
Position on Immigration: "Everyone except Yoko Ono..."
Position on Military Funding: "I'll piss on their graves."
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:57 pm
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Billy Gnosis



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 1281
Location: Southern Oregon
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1. You don't need God to be spiritual. Man made deities are man made. So by definition, imperfect.

2. Having religious objects or objects of sentimental relgious importance don't make you spiritual.

3. Most importantly of all, you don't need organized religion to be spiritual.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:46 pm
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hopper



Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 22
Location: chicago
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Billy Gnosis wrote:
3. Most importantly of all, you don't need organized religion to be spiritual.

i think billy's on to something here. man has a spiritual quality to him... aside from God, aside from religion... something that is built into who he is. granted this is a theory of mine, but here's why i think this way.

August Spies, you said that organized religion has been a roadblock to progress on all levels including philosophy and science. if that's the case and the concept God is so easily proved irrational and absurd, why has it not be stomped from existence yet? if the bible is a book of poorly written fables, then why has it been one of the most read, if not the most read book in history... inspite of the fact that it has also been the most persecuted book in history. why hasn't the essence of spirituality been wiped out, though every effort in the world has been made?

i would say it's because man needs a hope and a purpose beyond 80 years of a fluke life... beyond himself. it is something built into who he is. at the very heart of every person is the great need to feel as though his or her life had a purpose. people that have surpressed or lost this feeling i find are also usually the people that have little desire to live life. the point is, it seems as thought there is something more to life than being successful and well liked. however,if there is nothing beyond this life, then why is humanity obsessed with the concept of an afterlife and compelled by it? why, if it's been debunked and yeilds not an ounce of positivity, is it not only in still existence today but is JUST AS influencial, if not more, than science and philosophy, upon hundreds of millions of people?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:30 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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hopper wrote:

i would say it's because man needs a hope and a purpose beyond 80 years of a fluke life... beyond himself.


A "need" for a hope and a purpose cannot possibly equate as proof to the existence, or even the POSSIBLE existence, of ANYTHING.

And if Philosophy and Science have grown greatly as a result of trying to DISPROVE something that was built to be "undisprovable" in the first place, I give Religion credit as being the CATALYST, but that is far from the ANSWER.

We don't know. How long is it going to take humanity to get over all this "life having a purprose" crap and realize that we just ARE?!?! Then we'll be able to deal with it accordingly and we can ignore all these strange dogmatic rules that we are forced to follow as if there was some great "afterword" to this unfolding story.

Religion can kill or heal your soul, depending on what you let it do to you or what you're looking for in it.

That molesting fuck "Father" Gagen can tell you about religion and whatnot...him and Cardinal Law..."Father" Porter...you know the deal..."Who's your daddy?"

Seriously - priests molest because they are thrust into a mini-society that oppresses them sexually, this is not an excuse...they're still scumbags for thinking that's okay, but if this simple fact (remember, this is only an easily seen example of the phenomenon) doesn't translate into religion being a fairly bad thing for humans....man...I don't really know what it's going to take for people to realize that between the fucking suicide bombings and their children being diddled with that moral oppression is quite destructive.

Me, I am an "agnostic" that could functionally be called an "atheist". My "spiritual" friends use me as a moral compass. Figure that one out...

- Shane
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:39 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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hopper, you seriously should read my posts closer if you expect responses.
"if that's the case and the concept God is so easily proved irrational "
I never said this. I said all the organized religions I knwo are flawed and irrational. That does not mean that the concept of god is.

"why has it not be stomped from existence yet? "
lots of reasons, some of which being general human stupidty.
Now let me ask you a question, why do you think this proves anything?
Racism is a flawed and irrational concept. And yet it has survived as long as religion. Why is racism still around? Humans need crutches a lot of times.

"inspite of the fact that it has also been the most persecuted book in history."
you pullled that completely out of your ass.

"then why has it been one of the most read, if not the most read book in history"
All texts of major organized religions are widly read... so what? If chrsitainty is right, then all of the others must be wrong and simply be "fables"... does the fact that these fables are widly known and read prove anything?

"i would say it's because man needs a hope and a purpose beyond 80 years of a fluke life... "
perhaps it is... doesn't mean it is anything more than bullshit just because people would like to believe in it.

"why, if it's been debunked and yeilds not an ounce of positivity, is it not only in still existence today"
why is racism still in existence today?
(for the record I would not say religion holds "not an ounce" of positive attributes. I just think the bad far outweighs the good)
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:04 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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August Spies wrote:
(for the record I would not say religion holds "not an ounce" of positive attributes. I just think the bad far outweighs the good)


Well....I agree and I disagree.

It's subjective to the individual...it's all obviously bullshit...but it's how the human that takes in the bullshit reacts to it (morally sound schoolteachers vs. maniacal SUICIDE bombers).

It's just like my drug arguments...don't blame the entity, blame the people who abuse it. I think religion is fairly peculiar, extravagantly dumb, and amazingly misleading - however, it is the people who have let it affect them so greatly that they feel the need to kill who should be blamed, not the religion that "told" (I've yet to see a bible talk...) them to do it.

Nahmean?

- Shane
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:12 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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And the fact is that most of the U.S. population is, effectively, atheist.

Their religions rarely dictate what they do, usually just how they feel about themselves after having done it...and maybe who they tell.

- Shane
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:17 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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I dont' think a drug, which is purely a personal thing, can be compared to organized religiion which is a social thing.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:17 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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August Spies wrote:
I dont' think a drug, which is purely a personal thing, can be compared to organized religiion which is a social thing.


Hmmmmm....I'll have to sleep on that one, brother.

G'night.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:18 pm
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Billy Gnosis



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 1281
Location: Southern Oregon
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hopper wrote:

i think billy's on to something here.

yes

Quote:

man has a spiritual quality to him... aside from God, aside from religion... something that is built into who he is.


yes

Quote:


August Spies, you said that organized religion has been a roadblock to progress on all levels including philosophy and science. if that's the case and the concept God is so easily proved irrational and absurd, why has it not be stomped from existence yet?


no

Because it's the dichotomy of people wanting to be told what to do and those who would exploit an irratioal fear of the unknown (death) as the means of manipulation of their thought processes.

Quote:


if the bible is a book of poorly written fables, then why has it been one of the most read, if not the most read book in history... inspite of the fact that it has also been the most persecuted book in history. why hasn't the essence of spirituality been wiped out, though every effort in the world has been made?


Well, everyone knows it was that silly snake! The Hebrew/Greek God is the accepted God among Christians, Muslems, and Jews. YHWH, Allah, Jehovah, whatever you want to call it.

Keep in mind, thanks to our Crusading imperialistic forefathers in England, more blood has been spilt over the bible than any other book. Ever read Joshua and wonder what chance God gave to the hundreds of thousands that were slaughtered at the hands of Joshua's army, just so 'God's people' could claim their rightful land?


Quote:

i would say it's because man needs a hope and a purpose beyond 80 years of a fluke life... beyond himself. it is something built into who he is. at the very heart of every person is the great need to feel as though his or her life had a purpose. people that have surpressed or lost this feeling i find are also usually the people that have little desire to live life. the point is, it seems as thought there is something more to life than being successful and well liked. however,if there is nothing beyond this life, then why is humanity obsessed with the concept of an afterlife and compelled by it? why, if it's been debunked and yeilds not an ounce of positivity, is it not only in still existence today but is JUST AS influencial, if not more, than science and philosophy, upon hundreds of millions of people?


It's on humanity's mind because it's ingrained in humanity's culture. Organized religion is a plague. If there is something out there, I would bet it would roll its proverbial eyes and our useless existance and how we fucked up this world beyond recognition. Say this earth was a gift, say someone gives you a house, do you immediately start trashing it like some spoiled ungrateful teenager? Enslave eachother, and commit genocide on the world's peaceful, heathenistic cultures. But it's ok, we're all going to heaven right? Even the Buddhist monk who never is baptized? Though he lives as austere a life as possible? And is commited, unduly, towards helping people who need help and striving for his own personal enlightenment.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:34 pm
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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MessiahCarey wrote:
FoJaR wrote:
i have never felt fear. only dissapointment with myself when i've done something that i know is wrong, and love.


Then you have no need for religion to begin with.

- Shane


i have to serve god and my fellow man. and there are certain ordinances and such that need to be performed by the proper authority.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:26 pm
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zeem



Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3885
Location: elsewhere
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FoJaR wrote:
MessiahCarey wrote:
FoJaR wrote:
i have never felt fear. only dissapointment with myself when i've done something that i know is wrong, and love.


Then you have no need for religion to begin with.

- Shane


i have to serve god and my fellow man. and there are certain ordinances and such that need to be performed by the proper authority.


i quote stan marsh when i say this : "maybe heaven is this intangible thing that god wanted us to have here, maybe we should strive to have heaven here instead of wait for it when we're dead, or some crap like that"

god isnt this overpowering force that will control everything we do, god is the energy that runs through us, everything is energy, all we are are lluminous beings. theoretical physics proves, through positivist equations in quantum physics, that everything, including matter is just a vibration of energy, imagine that we just got lucky, we are incredibly complex particles, and our goal should be to get even more complicated and then take a mroe spiritual form.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:06 pm
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