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spirituality, where do you stand?
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Hellen Earth
could be a girl. could be a guy.


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1280
Location: Fitchburg, MA
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August Spies wrote:

Quote:

Organized reliigions is one of the enemies of mankind. It has caused more harm to humanity than perhaps anything else. It has been a constant roadblack to progress of every kind (philosophical, artistic, scientific, political). It is forced upon people from birth and force feed to them and many other reasons.
Whatever purpose organized religion served in the past, it is nothing but a dead weight on humanities shoulder today.



yes, perhaps organized religion has been 'nothing but a dead weight on humanities shoulder'. But that certainly doesn't make it 'inherently' bad.

for all the negative aspects organized religion has caused, you can't overlook the personal transformations that it has catalyzed in many people.

whether it's a good or bad thing is a personal choice, just leave it at that.

this subject is tired.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:59 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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August Spies wrote:
the fact that it has been a roadblock to progress of all kind isn't a reason?
the fact that it has caused hundreds of wars and untold deaths isn't a reason?

how about the fact that is inherenlty about hiearchy, which is bad imho.
how about the fact that it promotes a slave morality (*winks at tinkle*)?
how about the fact that it teaches man to be disatisfied with the only thing real, the life on earth?


i am mormon, so the first two dont apply to my religion. and the third.

the fourth is true, but you dont have to follow it. it's up to you to make decisions, if you dont want to follow god's commandments, it's up to you.

and the fifth is a blatant lie.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:02 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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personal transformations? so what? It is almost always for the worst.

People under transformations when they embrace Fascism or white nationalism too...
but you know, it is a personal choice I guess so what can you say?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:03 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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you honestly don't think christianity teaches man to look down on earth? You dont' think that christianity, even mormanism, dosen't promote the AFTERLIFE as the ultimate goal? that it doesn't teach us that earth is a sin filled world and we are all sinners?

have you actually been to church?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:04 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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Location: VA.
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as for being force fed at birth, to a point. your parents take you to church, it is up to you to believe. i have several friends who dont. even if you are born into a mormon family, you still have to be converted by the spirit. it isnt a "i was born (insert religion here) and it sounds alright to me" kind of thing.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:07 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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FoJaR wrote:
as for being force fed at birth, to a point. your parents take you to church, it is up to you to believe. i have several friends who dont. even if you are born into a mormon family, you still have to be converted by the spirit. it isnt a "i was born (insert religion here) and it sounds alright to me" kind of thing.


I disagree. I think virtually all religious people simply take the religion they are born into. If you look at it statistically virtually no one ever switches to anoter organized religion. If what you were born into had nothing to do with it, then it stands to reason religions would not be concentrated. There wouldn't be "christian countries" and "muslim countries."

Do you know anyone raised christian who converted to islam? Do you know anyone raised jewish that converted to sihkism?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:10 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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August Spies wrote:
you honestly don't think christianity teaches man to look down on earth? You dont' think that christianity, even mormanism, dosen't promote the AFTERLIFE as the ultimate goal? that it doesn't teach us that earth is a sin filled world and we are all sinners?

have you actually been to church?


i go to church every week. i was tought that the earth is a place to be tested. there is sin and evil in the world, yes, but that doesnt make the world a bad place, it means that a lot of work needs to be done. my time on earth is precious.

the afterlife is kind of an added bonus, it's going to be nice. but the ultimate goal is to be with the ones that you love. now and forever.

the earth is God's creation, and i love being in nature.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:13 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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August Spies wrote:
I disagree. I think virtually all religious people simply take the religion they are born into. If you look at it statistically virtually no one ever switches to anoter organized religion. If what you were born into had nothing to do with it, then it stands to reason religions would not be concentrated. There wouldn't be "christian countries" and "muslim countries."

Do you know anyone raised christian who converted to islam? Do you know anyone raised jewish that converted to sihkism?


ask me if i know anyone converted to mormanism.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:14 am
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August Spies



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well if true that is interesting. It is not what the catholic church taught me.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:14 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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thats because the catholic church isnt right :
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:15 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Quote:

ask me if i know anyone converted to mormanism.


i'm personally not impressed by people moving around to different sects of the same religion, but if you know any sikhs/muslims/buddhists/wiccians who converted to mormanism I would find that very interesting. Do you?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:18 am
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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i know for a fact that they exist.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:20 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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FoJaR wrote:
i know for a fact that they exist.


but you dont' know any?
so would I be right in assuming the majority of mormans you know were born into it?
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:22 am
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FoJaR



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about 70% of the mormons i know were born into it.

i just dont know what most of them were before they were mormon. hasnt come up.
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:27 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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[quote="Hellen Earth"][quote="August Spies"]
Quote:


yes, perhaps organized religion has been 'nothing but a dead weight on humanities shoulder'. But that certainly doesn't make it 'inherently' bad.


Without having read the rest of the post...like...AT ALL past a certain point, I just kinda gotta say something to this.

Organized religion is (in my opinion, this is debatable I guess) something that was created in order to control other people via fear. The act of controlling via fear is, in my opinion, a BAD thing to do...leaving something built on the foundation of using fear (i.e. organized religion) as inherently BAD.

Of course, isn't "discipline" just using fear to enact will?

Who knows. This is it. Anyone who thinks they know obviously doesn't.

- Shane
Post Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:01 am
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