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"rap retards black success."
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Machiavel



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 766
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klausmorgan wrote:
Do you have any studies to back up your statements? Hard facts? Statistics? If so, I would be honestly interested in seeing them, but my impression of the situation as a whole is that when it comes to the connection between the mainstream hiphop world and black social behavoir, very little actual hard research has been done to prove any point of view, leaving the grounds open to do just what he is doing in this article: Speculating.



Are you retarded? im not the one making a absurd claim. Im not speculating. Im saying that everything he says is speculation. He plays it off like fact: This is bullshit. His hypothesis is fuckin stupid, its like saying television causes athletes to perform shittily. The whole fuckin thing is illogical. an athlete wouldnt get shitty because he watches tv, he gets shitty because he doesnt practice, or because he gets old. I dont need facts to point out that there is no logic in it. Especially the way he acts as if rap were not violent things would be better. So yeah, im not making a argument based entirely outside the boundries of logic, so therefore i dont need to provide any sort of evidence.

In addition to not being able to provide statistics or evidence, it would also be nearly impossible to do a study. What the hell are you gonna do compare to a rap listening to ghetto to a raggae listening ghetto? How are you gonna rule out all of the confounding factors such as, school districts, job availability, transportation availability.... ect.

And yes music has gotten much more violent through the years, i would hypothesize that its because people have little if any other way to vent the anger and frustration they comeby in every day life. I would go so far to say that since nowdays there really isnt much of a struggle for survival for most people, that they worry about these things more, and have less of an outlet for their angst. In adition to the wider acceptance of violence and free speech over the years, has also made it easier to express ones angst and anger. If a slave was singing a song about killing their overseer you can be sure as hell it wouldnt just go unpunished it would have likely got them killed. Anway, im not saying this is fact. I have nothing to back it up really, its just what i see as the most logical conclusion.
Post Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:04 pm
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klausmorgan



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Northfield, MN
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Quote:

Are you retarded?
no.
Quote:

im not the one making a absurd claim. Im not speculating. Im saying that everything he says is speculation. He plays it off like fact
Alright, his tone could use more qualifiers. He is very self-assured in making his argument which could definitely be seen as arrogance at the least.
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In addition to not being able to provide statistics or evidence, it would also be nearly impossible to do a study. What the hell are you gonna do compare to a rap listening to ghetto to a raggae listening ghetto? How are you gonna rule out all of the confounding factors such as, school districts, job availability, transportation availability.... ect.
I completely agree with you on this point.
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music has gotten much more violent through the years, i would hypothesize that its because people have little if any other way to vent the anger and frustration they comeby in every day life.
I agree with you here, too, but what I'm proposing is a feedback effect. Spending so much time and effort concentrating on the music that vents these feelings does not necessarily alleviate them -- I would say that it intensifies them for many people. After the Columbine shootings, much was made of the fact that the killers listened to violent music and played violent video games. The idea that these things alone caused them to do what they did is preposterous (just as it would be preposterous for me to say that rap music causes gangs), but there is a re-enforcing and an amplification of negative feelings that goes on through immersion in a violent culture. We like to pretend that we are islands in a sea of information, and that we remain unaffected by the messages we pick up, but the fact is that these messages stay with us. The Nazis knew this well -- they were the ones who realized that if you say something enough times, no matter how baseless and absurd, people will start to believe it. The same is true of the violent messages of today.
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I have nothing to back it up really, its just what i see as the most logical conclusion.
I think your interpretation is a reasonable one, and not wholly wrong. But I also think that when you spend your youth listening constantly to messages like "fuck the police" and songs that glorify gang life, drugs and money and sex above all else, that there is NO WAY that it doesn't increase your chances of becoming a part of those things. It's not a direct causal relationship, because not everyone who listens to rap music becomes a gang member, but it does increase the chances of thinking that being one is a good thing, not a bad one.
Post Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:42 pm
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Mixt Ape



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 54
Location: NYC
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The statement that there is nothing politically or socially revolutionary about (mainstream) hip-hop is spot on. Look at the shit that is celebrated in most maistream rap songs these days- capitalist materialism, hyper-masculine machismo, homophobia, sexism, celebration of might, guns & violence. Yeah, real fucking revolutionary. Might as well be the Young Republicans fight song.
Post Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:36 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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djdee2005 wrote:
The most dangerous thing, not JUST to black political movement but to all youth political movements is to dismiss the younger generation as unpolitical products of video games and "rap music."


"Young bloods can't spell but they could rock you in PlayStation"

Brian
Post Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:48 pm
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