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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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penelope wrote:
having not read the whole thread... forgive me...

Randomsurge... why do you care?


I wanted to see people's opinion's on a played out subject...inserting myself as an example was just that...and example. What I wanted to see is people's own thinking, not a dictionary's definitons that I hope to have proven to be misleading (for lack of a better word)
Post Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:41 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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wordsauce wrote:

i will start the list...
-an ability to adapt to your environment... (a lesser form of adapting to your environment would be being able to change your environment)
-an ability to place meaning into your experience
-an ability to not be bored, an ability to know what you should be doing
-an ability to see things for yourself, creativity in a word.
-an ability to find happiness


ok I'll go on to disagree with some of these

Adapting your enviroment is instinctive isn't it? We are animals after all, and like all he have basic instincts. I guess I can see this as a very BASIC level of intelligence...but almost every single of the millions of millions of insects is able to adapt to its enviroment...this is natural, again instinctive... so I don't know about this

Meaning? Who says things have to have meaning? That's only a thing people do to keep themselves emotionally stable and mentally sane. People that believe in a god have found meaning. Does this make them any more intelligent than the next fellow? What if I convinced myself that my life had this meaning? I'm just fooling myself...which I guess requires a certain level of intelligence, but I know that's not what you meant by this, so...what about coming to terms with the fact that there is no meaning and being fine with that? Does that make me dumb?

Boredom? Again, an emotion. There's nothing wrong with boredom. If one weren't bored then being active would just be the norm...there's nothing wrong with being bored. You don't need to know what you "should" be doing all the time. And that would probably be the only thing in the world without an opposite to counter it. And this also relates to having "meaning"...so I got problems with that too

happiness? same, an emotion...I really don't know what you mean by this. If you're implying that there is state where you're just happy all the time, or to put yourself in situations to be happy. Happiness I have found to be moments...I hope you're not referring to total bliss here. But even if you were referring to just happy moments...hmm you can be happy without being able to reason...so I don't know abou this

hit me back
Post Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:02 pm
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wordsauce



Joined: 27 Jul 2002
Posts: 331
Location: Urbana, IL
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"Adapting your enviroment is instinctive isn't it? We are animals after all, and like all we have basic instincts."
-->Yes. And this is why i find animals much more intelligent than we are... but they have not found a way to adapt to us yet.

"Meaning? Who says things have to have meaning? That's only a thing people do to keep themselves emotionally stable and mentally sane... what about coming to terms with the fact that there is no meaning and being fine with that? Does that make me dumb?"
-->How does that make you dumb? You have placed meaning in that statement right there. Your meaning you have extrapolated is a lack of 'meaning,' or perhaps a lack of alterior purpose, in the world. That makes you smart.

"Boredom? ... You don't need to know what you "should" be doing all the time."
-->Yea, you don't need to know what you "should" be doing all the time... but I guess I phrased that horribly. I should have said being appreciative. What I was getting at was the horrible lack of intelligence in bitching about circumstances and environment, rather than being appreciative or doing something about it.

"Happiness I have found to be moments...I hope you're not referring to total bliss here. But even if you were referring to just happy moments...hmm you can be happy without being able to reason...so I don't know abou this..."
-->EXACTLY. you can be happy without being able to reason... and now we have gone 180 and taken reasoning somewhat out of the picture for intelligence and further show the stupidity of IQ tests. is a genius who has a family who hates him really smarter than a yokel who gets along perfectly with his environment and surroundings as a loved member of the community?

i turned the other cheek. hit me back. and what's up, randomsurge. my name is simon. and that was what i said.
Post Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:17 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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haven't you contradicted yourself?

especially after the meaning and the boredom ones...then going on to remove reasoning, then those two would cancel out

you can't be bored if you can't think about being bored...and you can't have meaning if you can't think about having meaning

so...ehhh
Post Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:39 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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oh and no I won't rub my titties
Post Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:41 pm
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Billy Gnosis



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 1281
Location: Southern Oregon
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Being sentient doesn't make you self aware.

We kill out of spite. There's only a handful of creatures that
do that (two of them being snakes).

We make love for fun. One of only two species to do that.
Having advanced emotions, counsciousness, extended
memory. That's the difference between us and an animal.

Just because it's intangible doesn't mean it's not there.
Post Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:47 pm
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wordsauce



Joined: 27 Jul 2002
Posts: 331
Location: Urbana, IL
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RandomSurge wrote:
you can't be bored if you can't think about being bored...and you can't have meaning if you can't think about having meaning


animals aren't bored. and animals don't need to think to understand their meaning. be more like an animal. woot-woot.
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:31 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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doh

but look at your list

you say "the ability to place meaning into your experience" and "the ability to not be bored"

now you say "animals aren't bored" (which would mean that they wouldn't be able to feel the opposite as well....busy I guess)

why? how do you know? and if it's true, it's not an ability...boredom just isn't part of their experience

so fuck that...argument's faulty up the ass

woot woot
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:45 am
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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a wise man once said......  Reply with quote  

Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:50 am
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wordsauce



Joined: 27 Jul 2002
Posts: 331
Location: Urbana, IL
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RandomSurge wrote:
you say "the ability to place meaning into your experience" and "the ability to not be bored"

now you say "animals aren't bored" (which would mean that they wouldn't be able to feel the opposite as well....busy I guess)

why? how do you know? and if it's true, it's not an ability...boredom just isn't part of their experience


someone who has no ability to reason whatsoever can have both the ability to place meaning into their experience and to not be bored. whether they sit back and think about it is a different question... i am just saying that the most intelligent people are the people who don't fuck up their experience with these man-made constructs. be like a squirrel.

"When problems overwhelm us and sadness smothers us where do we find the will and the courage to continue? Well the answer may come in the caring voice of a friend,a chance encounter with a book, or from a personal faith.
For Janet help came from her faith, but it also from a squirrel. Shortly after her divorce, Janet lost her father, then she lost her job.
She had mounting money problems. But Janet not only survived she worked her way out of despondency and now she says, life is good again. How could this happen? She told me that late one autumn day when she was at her lowest she watched a squirrel storing up nuts for the winter, one at a time he would take them to the nest. And she thought, if that squirrel
can take care of himself with the harsh winter coming along, then so can I. Once I ripped my problems into small pieces I was able to carry them, just like those acorns, one at a time."
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:20 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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again, it's not an ability of theirs...it simply isn't part of their experience, so how could they experience it???

and that's BESIDES the fact it's like saying "humans have the ability to live"....it's not an ability...if we weren't alive, then we more than likely wouldn't exist

note a hint of sarcasm there

you said said they can't feel bored...that in itself is into question, and if it is true, then it's not an ability...cause that would mean that they would have to be able to feel bored in the first place.

You saying "be like an animal" is ok in a certain sense, but it doesn't go along with the rest of your argument at all...you either haven't worded it right or just got confused somewhere. The way it doesn't work is that how you have presented it, animals can't be bored...while we can, so we develop ways to avoid such a feeling...animals simply wouldn't need to develop anything...
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:39 am
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wordsauce



Joined: 27 Jul 2002
Posts: 331
Location: Urbana, IL
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RandomSurge wrote:
You saying "be like an animal" is ok in a certain sense, but it doesn't go along with the rest of your argument at all...you either haven't worded it right or just got confused somewhere. The way it doesn't work is that how you have presented it, animals can't be bored...while we can, so we develop ways to avoid such a feeling...animals simply wouldn't need to develop anything...


i am unsure of what the contradiction is. perhaps i have said something that confuses you, but i just re-read, and i don't see where the contradiction is.

animals can't be bored. yes. we can. yes. so we develop ways to avoid such a feeling? sometimes... which is an okay way out of the situation. the better way - the animal way - that i am getting at is to de-develop all those extraneous thoughts that lead to conditional could's and hypothetical would's. de-develop those thoughts and simply be more appreciative of the present moment.

i look at my dogs and envy them. spare moment to yourself? lick your balls. have a bird fly down into your yard? stop licking your balls and play with it. i stop watching him and come out to play with it? rock on. screw the bird, play with me. notice that i am leaving for class? bark and try to get me to stay... but if i don't, fall asleep in less than a minute after i am gone.

when i was in japan, i had the same envy i have for my dogs for that culture in general.
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:44 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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I've known what you've been trying to get at this whole time. Just simply pointing out some flaws along the way...maybe we have different definitions of certain words of whatever and I'm reading your posts differently.

But again, we would have to "de-develop"....animals don't have to bother....hence no ability :)
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:55 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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oh and to those that say admitting you know shit makes you intelligent

I don't agree...admitting you know jack shit is simply opening the door...I don't know anything...the door is open...I just haven't gone in yet...there seems to be nothing on the other side
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:57 am
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bensandoval



Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 2564
Location: berkeley
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i don't know what is or isn't intelligence

does that mean i'm intelligent?
Post Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:07 am
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