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"Ban White People From Hip-Hop"
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Sid A Sore



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 4
Location: West Coast
more of my humble opinion a.k.a. a whole lot of B.S.  Reply with quote  

This probably will not sound as I want it to but here goes.
This reverend was obviously taught hate by someone. I don't know maybe some white person or persons did something bad to him or his parents, possibly his parents were older and they were of the age when racism was more common. I myself learned about racism in school and on TV Most of my friends were pretty much the same as I, third generation americans with no ancestors in this country here before the early 1930's. Some much later than that. I know that racism was pretty common up until the late 60's but bear with me. My DJ is russian and his father was born in Mexico. My Grandfather came here from Sicily and his Grandfather was from Egypt. by looking at me you would never know my great great grandfather was dark skinned. on the other side my great grandfather brought my grandfather over to america when he was a child and he grew up in a black neighborhood and his best friend and partner in business was a black man. None of my ancestors owned a slave in america. I don't know anything about my family past my great great grandparents, and I can't claim that in my bloodline there wasn't slavery hundreds or thousands of years ago. my ancestors could have been slaves for that matter. When I learned about racism in school, I thought that it couldn't be true. It seemed impossible for someone to think they were better because of the color of their skin. Not because I'm a righteous person. only because it wasn't taught to me and it didn't seem logical. To me, if I thought I could win a foot race or pass a test because I was of the color of my skin, I was giving up an edge to someone who worked harder believing the field was even. I guess there was some racism in a couple of the kids I knew, but those kids were the stupid kids that got bad grades and didn't take baths. We all knew that if they called someone a black something or other it was because they couldn't spell or because they were uncoordinated.
Part of what I'm saying is that most of the people who were racist stayed in arkansas and married their sister because they knew she was pure breed and died of years ago.
Anyone who pays attention to life knows that diversity can only strengthen. this goes for anything, blending metals, playing sports, building structures, et cetera. People who work with dogs know that the mutts are the smartest, they have the advantage of natural selection, and the weak genes have died and the strong ones prevailed. Pure bread dogs are almost always stupid, usually retarded, and always prone to disease and other defects. It is the same in humans. Why is America so advanced in everything? It's because people of all races and thoughts come here and add their influence. We get the cream of every crop, and they come here and create, and influence.
I think this is the reason why this reverend seems so unintelligent to me.

hypothetical: If it were possible to remove all white influence from hip hop, then a black artist who might have become the greatest musician since sound may not hear the artist that influenced him to pick up an instrument or a mic, because the venue that would have brought hip hop to his attention might be playing Soft Cell because the sponsers aren't allowed to have any part of hip hop because one person in that company is white.

I feel as if I've wasted my time thinking about something so worthless and something that works so hard to stop progress.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:58 am
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Sid A Sore



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 4
Location: West Coast
 Reply with quote  

"most of the people who were racist stayed in arkansas.....died years ago" just stating that they are creating a race of low IQ people who will eventually become extinct or useless like the appendix. I know racism is alive and well. and not just in the south. in places of world influence.

I guess we all know that a closed mind will never see a solution, only a problem.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:04 am
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barlow



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 1100
Location: Leeds, UK
Black music  Reply with quote  

I once read an article in which the writer claimed that "Jimi Hendix wasn't a black blues musician, he was a black man who played a white mans version of the blues for the white man"

How fucked up is that??

Obviously we have all missed the point here.
It isn't the music that is black or white, or indead the artist, but the audience.

So following this logic where I come from, Bob Marley wasn't a black Reggae artist, he was actually a 15 year old white stoner car thief from Hartlepool.

Called Wayne.

Probably.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 6:21 am
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Bathtub



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 46
FUCK ALL THIS  Reply with quote  

if you all are to scared to say this. white mcs are mainly ALOT more talented than any black MC. with exceptions to cats like icon the mic king, aceyalone, bus driver, eligh, pheniox orion,nga fish, just to name a few. let the preacher bitch about it, we all know none of that shit he says has any relevance to our music or our "culture". hes just a black preacher and all they do is complain about how life is these days and how "hard" it is for a black man to suceed. seriously, pop on your head fones and listen to common or gangstarr or talib kwali, and then try to say they are more talneted than noah23, alias, dose one, radioinactive.
BLACK IS A COLOR-NOT A CULTURE
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:11 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
 Reply with quote  


Quote:

Or how the punk communtiy hated on Greenday and Blink182. It's not just in HipHop folks. Those who grew and lived in a culture are very protective of it...


I consider myself more of a part of the undergound punk/hardcore community and I have to say i think there is a difference. One thing about punk is that its much more than music. Its a culture, its an outlook on life, its a way of life etc... and its a real community. (I think hip-hop is like this too, but most types of music aren't) so anyway jockpunk bands like Good Charlotte or Blink 182 were in a sense selling out from the punk rock community and they were going against punk values. They were selling shitty music to the masses under the guise of "punk."

Whites listening to hip hop is a different thing I think because hip-hop, as far as I can tell was never a movement about "not liking whites." See the problem I see is when these changes totally distort a culture. The mainstream is pretty much devoid of creativity, so they have to constantly dig up new undergound trends to sell to the masses. In the 70's people were getting tired of the shitty music so they brought it "new-wave" or waterd down punk, then it was "hip-hop" then "grunge" then "alternative" now "techno" etc... For punks, we see that this mainstream exploitation of a subcutlure in effect DESTROYS that culture. Is there a grunge community anymore? or a new wave subculture? no. Anything left from that is the watered down tv version.

I think many can agree, looking at Ja-Rule or Mystical dancing around, that teh same thing has happend to mainstream rap. so I totally support Company Flow being "independent as fuck" otherwise that shit will just be brushed into the dustbin of music history.

......

although I certainly disagree with the preacher guy I have to say I thought it was sad that the only arguments Coolio could come up with were capitalists ones. "Oh we wouldn't be as rich without white people." Man fuck that. Should be about more than how can you make the most money.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:41 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
Re: FUCK ALL THIS  Reply with quote  

Bathtub wrote:
if you all are to scared to say this. white mcs are mainly ALOT more talented than any black MC.


This is a VERY bold statement - but one you're entirely entitled to make.

It is, however, irrelevant.

I don't think anyone's really even bringing it there (although I'm sure it'll get ugly now...haha)...heh...but the difference isn't in who's "better" at the art form, but who RESPECTS the art form AND ITS ORIGINS.

The original <insert whatever you're talking about here> will never be as good TECHNICALLY (although perhaps stigmatically) as what it inspires.

This is actually, to me, the beauty of music - and we also get to watch hip hop develop first hand from an art form in its infancy to something more mature. Genres like country and rock don't push the envelopes any more...we've seen them grow and they are (or have, in the case of country) approaching the end of its growth period, which is also another reason why hip hop is getting so popular in general.

There are always going to be people, like myself with hardcore and punk (at least I realize it ;-), that will cling to their stigmatic views of what is "better" - but in essence it's all good as long as you respect the origins of whatever it is you do - in the case of hip hop and punk, understanding the angst of the oppressed black and white (respectively) inner city youths having to grow up with very little to no resources. A white MC can be really dope, but if I ever hear him say that black people haven't made hip hop what it is I'm taking his shit out the deck and throwing it at him/her.

Peace,
Shane
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:42 am
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
 Reply with quote  

with all the kids into both the punk and hip hop communities ive never understand why the scenes aren't more connected, or why there aren't hip hop/hardcore shows...
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:48 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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August Spies wrote:

although I certainly disagree with the preacher guy I have to say I thought it was sad that the only arguments Coolio could come up with were capitalists ones. "Oh we wouldn't be as rich without white people." Man fuck that. Should be about more than how can you make the most money.


I hear you there, quite saddening.

I have to disagree with you on one count though.

I hate the "punk is more than just music, it's a lifestyle" bullshit...I mean...it's true, but are you assuming that hip hop is any different?

It's a lifestyle for SOME people, and it's just a type of music for others (and didn't we all hate those people when we were younger puking on ourselves and punching our balls in front of cops?). It's JUST like punk, my man.

Also...to combat the "punk is more than just music" angle, I offer exhibit A - Skrewdriver.

Most punk is left-wing Marxist type stuff...at least the "lifestyle" punk that most people talk about...which is a movement that I respect IMMENSELY. The underground 'zine culture, guerilla information networks, etc....shit like that is necessary right now...

But Skrewdriver CERTAINLY does not fit into that "lifestyle" do they? I mean...they're a fucking white power band...heh...but you couldn't say that they weren't a punk band...it's just...different, y'know?

The problem is combining a lifestyle and a genre of music together - it's just as ignorant in many of the same ways that racism is ignorant. For example, Ani DiFranco says some things that your boys the August Spies say...but in most squats (not all) you just DON'T pop out Reagan Youth to pop in your copy of "Not So Soft". Heh. This obviously doesn't apply specifically to YOU because you're open minded enough to be on a hip hop message board (and if your friends are as well, proppers due). You know...I mean...honestly speaking, what's wrong with someone who lives a punk lifestyle but doesn't like the music? Where do they "fit in"? Isn't that the most non-conformist thing you could do? Anyone where YOU'RE squatting listen to Kenny G? ;-)

Don't take this the wrong way...discussion, no arguments.

Peace,
Shane
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:58 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
 Reply with quote  

August Spies wrote:
with all the kids into both the punk and hip hop communities ive never understand why the scenes aren't more connected, or why there aren't hip hop/hardcore shows...


I've set up a couple of those in my town, and I'd love to do more in the future.

Peace,
Shane
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:58 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
Re: FUCK ALL THIS  Reply with quote  

Bathtub wrote:
if you all are to scared to say this. white mcs are mainly ALOT more talented than any black MC. with exceptions to cats like icon the mic king, aceyalone, bus driver, eligh, pheniox orion,nga fish, just to name a few. let the preacher bitch about it, we all know none of that shit he says has any relevance to our music or our "culture". hes just a black preacher and all they do is complain about how life is these days and how "hard" it is for a black man to suceed. seriously, pop on your head fones and listen to common or gangstarr or talib kwali, and then try to say they are more talneted than noah23, alias, dose one, radioinactive.
BLACK IS A COLOR-NOT A CULTURE


Heh, I really think that those particular white MC's you listed suck.

It's a preference thing, there are no absolutes anywhere.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 12:15 pm
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Shylax



Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 153
 Reply with quote  

August,

You eloquently described what I've been trying to say. And since you know more about the punk culture than I do, you were able to explain the comparison I made better.

I agree with everything you said...

As for Bathtub, your a joke, kid. Everything you said is nonsense...
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 12:21 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Shylax: thanks

MessiahCarey:

"I hate the "punk is more than just music, it's a lifestyle" bullshit...I mean...it's true, but are you assuming that hip hop is any different? "

No, definitly not. In my post I said "(I think hip-hop is like this too, but most types of music aren't)" sorry if it wasn't clear. I do think hip-hop, like punk functions as a true subculture community and a "way of life" or what not. it is one thing that really attracts me to the hip-hop scene. This will probably sound arogant, but hardcore and hip hop seem to be the only subcultures doing anything interesting and pushing boundries anymore.

Metal has fallen into bland repitition, (most interesting metal bands are part of the punk scene now anyway) goth is just about who knows who and fashion, techno... ugh.

--------
Anyway to clear something up, I can see how you took my post but I didn't mean that "punk is a lifestyle, if you don't live it you can't like the music" or something like that. Or that it wouldn't be punk music if it didn't fit the philosophy. I wasn't meaning to be elitist like that.

What I did mean is that punk/hardcore, LIKE HIP-HOP, is also a real community and a real subculture. As you point out punk/hardcore extends much farther than jsut music, diy record labels diy zines diy books etc... its a community. And, underground, hip-hop is much the same way. If the mainstream gets a hold of such a community it tends to kill that subculture.

So to answer your question: nothing wrong with them, full respect from me. Im not at all interested in "scene cops" or something like that.

hope that ramblings cleared up my thoughts somewhat.

PS: I don't like the band the August Spies, my name (like theirs) is a reference to the anarchist labor union leader August Spies who was one of the haymarket martyrs, very interesting episode in U.S. labor history if you want to read up on it.

PPS: not that it matters, but me and most people I know in "the scene" are pretty open minded about music. Hell, even though id consider myself a hardcore kid I don't like a lot of punk/hardcore music and I probably listen to as much Hip-hop or Indierock as hardcore. Difranco is pretty cool, but not a fan of the G-man.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:08 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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August Spies wrote:

PS: I don't like the band the August Spies, my name (like theirs) is a reference to the anarchist labor union leader August Spies who was one of the haymarket martyrs, very interesting episode in U.S. labor history if you want to read up on it.

PPS: not that it matters, but me and most people I know in "the scene" are pretty open minded about music. Hell, even though id consider myself a hardcore kid I don't like a lot of punk/hardcore music and I probably listen to as much Hip-hop or Indierock as hardcore. Difranco is pretty cool, but not a fan of the G-man.


Haha...yeah...that's where they got THEIR name too, obviously. I'm familiar...it's interesting what labor unions have morphed into now though...just another extension of the corporate culture and mentality. 'Tis a shame...you have to be a "member" ... fuck "memberships" ... if we all just stand up and WALK THE FUCK OUT because we're not being treated right we're MEMBERS THEN, AREN'T WE! Heh. Anyway...

Yeah...I'm sure that y'all ARE open minded (that was apparent from the beginning considering our medium of communique)...but man...I have met TOO many kids that aren't. ;-)

Peace,
Shane
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:19 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
 Reply with quote  

Oh... yes I definitly agree. Ive met plenty too, which is why I tried to clear up what I meant. The worst is kids who think that modern hardcore music, IE music that is pushing boundries, isn't "punk" because they can only have such a narrow-view of what punk can be.

This certainly applies to hip hop, and im sure people here feel that. Ive heard people plenty of times say dose-one or sage francis isn't really hip hop.

sigh.

Personally I think music, especially as sub-culture music, has to constantly evolve. Things that fall into patterns get killed first.

PS: the current state of labor is pretty sad in this country, but much of it probably has to do with the FBI. I mean they litterally went in and killed/jailed the leaders of the anarchist/socialist/communist unions and destroyed them. What movment there was in the U.S. was stopped pretty quickly.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:24 pm
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RapCat



Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1016
Location: San Jose
 Reply with quote  

just another mad black guy that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, coolio's know whats up though.
Post Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:02 pm
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