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An email exchange inspired by Next Testament. 5/7/03
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Bohne



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 39
Location: germany, europe, far out man!
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dallasbboy wrote:

Hold up there bro. You seem to be overlooking one incredible fact:
The bible is no ordinary book its the word of God in physical form. Authored by God via his inspiration to man.

How many other books you know like that?

To say that Christians are closed minded is true by definition. However this principle is often abused and handled with little grace on the part of Christians. It doesn't mean that we put our hands over our ears and open our mouths with condemnation for all conflicting ideas of theology.[...]

Brian


Hm, now might be a good moment to remove your hands from your ears:

dallasbboy wrote:
MessiahCarey wrote:
dallasbboy wrote:
You seem to be overlooking one incredible fact:
The bible is no ordinary book its the word of God in physical form. Authored by God via his inspiration to man.


You must be using some strange definition of the word "fact" that I'm not aware of.

One that is the equivelant to "theory".

- Shane


To me its a fact.

Brian


The definition of what a fact is, is not even a theological idea. Unless you consider sciences to be theological... some people do. *shrug*

peace,
aka
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:27 am
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
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Theres no, "to me it is fact". It eithers qualifies as fact, with a backing of some type of evidence, or its theory/belief. Just because somebody wants to believe so bad does not make it fact. Would you put your house, your money, your girlfriend, your car and everything else in this world on your evidence of this so-called 'fact'?? I wouldnt either.
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:33 am
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joking



Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 3
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there is a wonderful story by arthur c. clarke. The Star i think.
a jesuit preist is on a space ship headed into deep space to investigate an ancient supernova upon arriving they discover the solar system wiped clean save the farthest moon. on the moon they find a vault. in the vault they find the recorded history of a stunningly human like race. They are entertained and saddened by home movies of families enjoying themselves
on pink sandy beaches under green skies, blue skinned children play and laugh just like us. Before they return to earth the jesuit preist calculates the position of the system in relation to the earths position and discovers the
the placement of the supernova in relation to earths history. The Star that went supernova and destroyed an entire civilization of different colored humans just like us is known by us as the Star of Bethlehem.
I think Arthur C.Clarke is a saint.
part of me hopes this story is true.
Post Fri May 09, 2003 6:20 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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The_Human wrote:
Theres no, "to me it is fact". It eithers qualifies as fact, with a backing of some type of evidence, or its theory/belief. Just because somebody wants to believe so bad does not make it fact. Would you put your house, your money, your girlfriend, your car and everything else in this world on your evidence of this so-called 'fact'?? I wouldnt either.


Of course its fact, science operates on logical deduction NOT absolute conclusion (at which point it becomes mathematics) or did you not know this?

I treat the divine authorship of the bible in the same manner as I treat science.

Its fact to me just as the sunsets in New Mexico are beautiful are fact, I can't prove any of these to you but they are facts to me because of my own observation and research.

Brian
Post Fri May 09, 2003 6:27 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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Shane... don't even attempt to use logic or reasoning around here, it will just drive you insane,

Hey dallasbboy... i just took this huge shit in my toilet. It is a spiritual message from God... this is fact, as I feel it in my heart. You can fact check if you want, I didnt flush yet.
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:03 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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dallasbboy wrote:

Hold up there bro. You seem to be overlooking one incredible fact:
The bible is no ordinary book its the word of God in physical form. Authored by God via his inspiration to man.

How many other books you know like that?



I just got a peek at this....ohhhh this is rich

then he goes on to say it is fact because it is fact to him...which is even better

oh and I happen to have the first spiderman comic...it was inspired by god...and it is in fact the word of god...and this is fact...because I said so
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:24 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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I happen to love the argumentative loops the bible offers up for discussion
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:25 pm
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Krang
THE ORC BREATH


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 811
Location: NSW, australia
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dallasbboy wrote:
MessiahCarey wrote:
dallasbboy wrote:
You seem to be overlooking one incredible fact:
The bible is no ordinary book its the word of God in physical form. Authored by God via his inspiration to man.


You must be using some strange definition of the word "fact" that I'm not aware of.

One that is the equivelant to "theory".

- Shane


To me its a fact.

Brian



If the bible has no human corruption in it, why are there inconsistencies throughout the different apostles accounts?

Also, why are the religious elements of homers poetry, written only a few hundred years before, considered myth, yet the bible 100% fact?

Also, why do you believe there has been no human corruption of a book in 2000 years? Faith may account for this, but your faith doesnt change human nature.




Now i have a question. I talk to christians, and get told, no matter how good a life you live, if you dont accept jesus as your lord and savior, you go to hell. By this logic, all babies that die go to hell.
Anyone who lives in a non christian country goes to hell... no matter how good a life they lived.

It's pure arrogance that for you to be allowed into heaven, you have to acknowledge jesus as your saviour. Or for the less fundamentalist christians, you have to acknowledge the existence of god.
Why believe in such an arrogant ruler??

IF there is a god whom is a seperate entity, and is as good as the religion makes them out to be, why would they punish people for simply not acknowledging their existance?
THIS is why you need to stop hiding behind faith and REALISE there are problems with your religion. Don't fear the fact youll go to hell, which is what you are told. My advice is to talk to a christian theologian, because true christian theology is 1000 times different from what you get told in church.

You dont have to change your beliefs, but at least question the dogma.
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:30 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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Krang wrote:
If the bible has no human corruption in it, why are there inconsistencies throughout the different apostles accounts?

Also, why are the religious elements of homers poetry, written only a few hundred years before, considered myth, yet the bible 100% fact?

Also, why do you believe there has been no human corruption of a book in 2000 years? Faith may account for this, but your faith doesnt change human nature.

Now i have a question. I talk to christians, and get told, no matter how good a life you live, if you dont accept jesus as your lord and savior, you go to hell. By this logic, all babies that die go to hell.
Anyone who lives in a non christian country goes to hell... no matter how good a life they lived.

It's pure arrogance that for you to be allowed into heaven, you have to acknowledge jesus as your saviour. Or for the less fundamentalist christians, you have to acknowledge the existence of god.
Why believe in such an arrogant ruler??

IF there is a god whom is a seperate entity, and is as good as the religion makes them out to be, why would they punish people for simply not acknowledging their existance?
THIS is why you need to stop hiding behind faith and REALISE there are problems with your religion. Don't fear the fact youll go to hell, which is what you are told. My advice is to talk to a christian theologian, because true christian theology is 1000 times different from what you get told in church.

You dont have to change your beliefs, but at least question the dogma.


On the coattails of what Reggie said earlier about Eastern/Western opinions. Why is it imperative you find an explanation for every facet of human salvation? Babies dying, people in foreign countries etc.. You are not a baby nor a person who has yet to hear the protocol for salvation so why worry and quesiton it so much?

Some things we simply can't comprehend or find a purpose for, so why try?

I'm not following anything anyone has told me blindly, I've studied ever major religion and Christianity is what makes sense to me. In fact in college I started out being a theology major,

You can sit there and nit pick ANY idea to death but to speak from experience is an entirely different matter.

Brian
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:39 pm
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Krang
THE ORC BREATH


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 811
Location: NSW, australia
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um i dont think you read my post brian, cuz you didnt really respond to the ideas i brought up
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:42 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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dallasbboy wrote:

Some things we simply can't comprehend or find a purpose for, so why try?



the irony is delicious
Post Fri May 09, 2003 10:50 pm
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Swipe



Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 206
Location: Minneapolis
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Rollin' twelve deep, in any town I am no stranger
people talk like they know me, always drama in the manger.
Post Fri May 09, 2003 11:00 pm
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Bohne



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 39
Location: germany, europe, far out man!
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RandomSurge wrote:
dallasbboy wrote:

Some things we simply can't comprehend or find a purpose for, so why try?



the irony is delicious


amen



peace,
aka
Post Sat May 10, 2003 3:35 am
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Bohne



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 39
Location: germany, europe, far out man!
oh, and by the way...  Reply with quote  

If I were to believe in a mythical principle derived from religion, I would prefer the Devil over God. I mean, come on - he's much cooler. He get's to come down here, he gets constant updates, while God is... well, don't know really - you tell me...

:)
peace,
aka
Post Sat May 10, 2003 6:45 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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Brian - while it may be "fact" TO YOU, it is not as such FACT. A fact is a fact regardless of who believes it.

The qualifying factor of any fact is that it can be proven (of course, these are admittedly within human constructs. Once the big bearded white guy in the sky gets a hold of things, I'm told, reason no longer applies).

The bible doesn't use the proper inferences for me to think the God that's in it is real. Most people, when human communication is taken from it, will find the same thing. I think it's the stigma we put on these books that make people beleive them regardless of their many contradictions, inconsistancies, poor translations based on political motivations, etc. - these are hard FACTS, not inferred facts such as your belief that the bible is hands down the word of God. Don't get me wrong, (from my perspective, of course) it's a remarkable book in which a lot can be learned from, until you get to the God stuff.


And Bohne...you bring up a good point. How much of a pussy is God that he can't even handle an errant archangel? Omnicsient perhaps, but obviously not as omnipotent as He thinks He is.

- Shane
Post Sat May 10, 2003 6:54 am
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