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An email exchange inspired by Next Testament. 5/7/03
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Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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haha, I was just trying to cause trouble as usual... dont you get it yet?

BUT, in purely stark intellectual terms, yes. Either side is steeped in a form of faith... either Faith in a God that doesnt want to be seen... or faith in yourself to the point where you think your perspective is actually clear enough to believe there is no God.

Both sides are inherently flawed... I don't think anyone can debate against that. What you CAN debate against is the idea that thinking in stark intellectual terms is somehow right or true. I think having faith in something is quite healthy... To loosely quote Bukowski... "the more stuff we believe in, the better off we are."

I was just messing around with the athiests...

I can't talk shit.... I'm on a serious metaphysical kick right now inspired by some crazy synchronicity and this book on Edgar Cayce... It takes faith on my part to believe Cayce was for real as well as believe synchronicity is real and not just a bunch of REALLY intricate coincidences that go beyond mathematical comprehension. So whatever...

But if you believe in bird men, you are an idiot... that's my word.
Post Wed May 07, 2003 3:49 pm
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Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 39
Location: germany, europe, far out man!
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SneebDotCom wrote:
This all being said... to be an athiest is to be the opposite of an intellectual... Anyone who seriously claims they are a 100% athiest is a pea brain.

Hmm, that means that I don't even have to use rational arguments since I'm (as an atheist) am the opposite of an intellectual? Great! Thanks!
Though, I'd rather like to - maybe because I'm just 95% atheist? no, lol... my poor pea brain is overloaded with such heavy thoughts, I guess I should turn to some religion so I can consider atheism.
You're giving great proof on the locking of the mind by religions.

And no, I don't dis people with religious beliefs. It's just when they try to give rational 'evidence' for any given religion...

I consider myself an ex-christian, I was raised as a christian by my grandmother, but lost it when I read the bible and look at the church representing it. I found other religions to be more in tune with humankind at large and during the last five or so years I slowly rid myself of any such concept. I find strength within myself and I am my own judge on issues of morality, death and life. *shrug* Kind of goes with studying philosophy :-P

My 2 cents:
Enlightenment at large didn't really work in the way of freeing human mind from the slavery of religious doctrines. Only the 'religious' has been removed and replaced by other doctrines: ppl still are stupid :-P

Post Wed May 07, 2003 3:53 pm
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Location: germany, europe, far out man!
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SneebDotCom wrote:
haha, I was just trying to cause trouble as usual... dont you get it yet?

I was just messing around with the athiests...


But if you believe in bird men, you are an idiot... that's my word.

Ok, so I don't have to fear you took my comment personal :)

Know the passage by George Carlin about angels? Very loosely quoting(*sigh* where was that one on?): "70% of people believe in angels? wtf? Why aren't there people around believing in zombies? I don't see many of those"...

Post Wed May 07, 2003 3:58 pm
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Sunday morning, my first at RopesEnd Ranch. A discreet 75 year old house on the edge of town hidden on either side by a Catholic and a Baptist church. Members arrive at 9 am early enough to show their resolve, late enough to allow a damned sensible man his god given right to sleep.
The Catholics follow in line bumper to bumper heads down eyes forward,
children dressed. They walk in smiling, presence proof of being on the right track. We are doomed but shall pass the Good Lords time. the best are genuinely happy and kind, yet ironically, secretly, hold no stock in the protocols of organized religion. just happy to be here, spoke to God this morning, on my own terms, says to say hi, don't fuss so much, go to church if you want to, aint so bad if the sermons short, if you can avoid the worst of them. them. miserable somewhere inside. looking to a savior with questions, the answers to which, He Himself had already laid squarely in their laps. To some God is just a reason to avoid looking at ones self, or the world as it is. These people demand holy justice, sometimes with the cost of lives. physical death or the brainwashing bantering hum of religous fervor. a gathering of people under one roof, most of whom are thinking of their own lives, football sunday, sleeping, who with,new hubcaps, whats on the tv, afew selfless people who volunteer their time, one of which does so to quell the endless guilt brought about by past deeds. you have shaken the hand of a sinner, perhaps they smiled.
The Baptists, arrive from every direction, some walking, they seem more relaxed. But I'm sure theres some hellfire and brimstone there to. a church is a church. a place of dedication,remorse,guilt, ecstasy,jokes,love and the demands of passion. at times ,conceivably,one of the more dangerous places on earth. I try to avoid them.
God is here at my kitchen table staring out the window at the catholics then turning back looking at the baptists.
looking me in the eye He Who Is says'would you want to dally your day away in a church?'
Aware of Whom I was speaking with I spoke truthfully, sparing Our Lord,
any unnecesssary politeness.
"no" "unless it was my house" I quickly added,no sarcasm intended,I was merely thinking of the church downtown that waqs being renovated into condos, God did not reveal any signs of indignation, so I felt at ease and waited with what I hoped was reverence for Him to continue...
For a long time nothing was said, I decided to go back to reading and as soon as he felt my attention wavering He spoke up.
'Lets have a drink'
'don't be' He intoned , a bottle of Jack Daniels appearing in his hand.
'its ten oclock in the morning'
out and out ignoring my remark he filled a glass with an obscene amount of hooch, handed it to me and proceeded to fill three more.
'To The Father The Son and The Holy Spirit. Love that Holy Spirit' he giggled and threw back all three gleefully.
I sat motionless glass in hand. His Holy looked at me eyebrows raised, signalling the tip of the glass. 'what the hell' I thought 'how many people get to have a drink with The Creator?'
'there ya go' He Spoke
By ten thirty we, rather He finished the bottle, my self having finished my first glass,was now reluctantly, under scrutiny, finishing my second, thereby rendering myself useless and completely under Gods Will.
He mumbled something under His breath, sounding oddly like a Gregorian chant, then spoke.
'Whats it all about, little monkey, huh?'
'I don't know' I said a little nervous.
'Thats right! you dont know,good answer . Do you want to know? really really?
I tried to keep my focus on Him, but I was seeing triple'fuckin trinity for Crisssake'
'nooo' and snicker was His reply He handed me another pint adding how obvios the answer was 'mabye I might tell ya after a coupla more.
I winced balancing my eyeballs, outside church bells rang signalling all followers it was ok to stop worshipping do go home, donate, spread the word. step right this way, see the dog faced boy. I felt my head lolling, caught it and looked up into the smiling face of God.
"thats it let it go, you think alcohol was an accident? It excites the passionsn whatever they may be, you think I could just show up? out of the blue? you my little freind are in a state, can you tell me what I look like?
I realized I could not, there was a face, that seemed to be there but the more I tried to examine it...I could see an eye,or a hair a section of chin or so on, but I could only see exactly what I was looking at, no peripherals. my eyes simply slid off the face. He looked like everyone and no one.
The voice as well was hard to pin down.
'Its the alcohol' God Spoke
'the alcohol?'
'Yes came the Heavenly Affermative
'so' ''''so' I said to the Creator "so the more drunk I am the more rightous I am?'
"Yes, No I mean no, in no way do I think you should be drunk off your stick,
like Ben Franklin said everything in moderation, I just know you, if you were not a little tanked, and took this soberely, you would be running around gibbering like the little monkey you are.'
"to show yourself in all Your Glory would be to much for me to handle?'
I somehow spit out despite my swollen tongue
"Exacto mundo" replied the One True God
I don't know if I was comfortable with The Prime Existor qouting The Fonz
but 'rest in the hands of God' right?'
'so will I remember any of this?'
'not really I AM far to awe inspiring, believe me it no picnic'
'so what,n your here for kicks?'
'oh Heavens no I AM here for you, I AM here now more than I usually Am,
but I Am always here.'
"don't be a jerk" the bottle of Jack whisphered
God laughed.
so God has a sense of humour
'oh absolutely could it be any other way? For My Sons sake, could you keep a handle on all this shit without having to split a good side seam once in a while?'
'can't argue with you there Big Daddy'

I decided His Grand Omnipotance was getting at something, bold I was to suspect My Main Man Diety of any move.
'Whats it all about little monkey?'
I decided I did not know the answer
'Oh don't be so lazy, its easy. All you do is bitch, you know what I do?
You know what its like to juggle a thousand suns, keeping hold of the celestial universe, simply to tug one planet closer to its sun, so it begins a million year cycle which will bring its damned precios surface the moisture within which will begin life as you know it,blah blah, all tickles and daffodills you think you have days?and just all paperwork put me on a go kart, sometimes I'd rather just go around in circles' this seemed to cheer him up
'so whats it all about little monkey?'
I had no idea, this was all to much for me. I put my glass out for another.
"What do you say?'
'Thank you Lord may I have another?'
"there ya go"The Lord Our God stated,"with pleasure"

For a while the conversation grew lighter, we talked about what came first the chicken or the egg and believe me when I say, this one comes out of left field,then it was strippers politics and rock and roll. He also considers the potato to be the most misused tool on the planet, why he would not go into.
The parking lots of both churches were now empty, yet I, blessed as I was continued my audience with The Almighty. I was now coasting on an inebriated wave of euphoria, whether this was dream or not, I no longer cared. Had I not such a base and skeptical nature, I may bhave been in a spiritual ecstasy, mabye it was the alcohol speaking on my behalf, but I felt damned good.
Then He Who Is all Knowing said her name, and for the first time since I met God,Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth this Hellish Beauty, I was insulted, He used a cheap shot,yea though He has the advantage of the great Private eye. Sure why rile me up He knows I Know, God did you have to say that name?
"Sorry" His Voice whisphered with more sincerty than I have ever heard.
I was immediately embarassed "I am sorry, it was not my place, I have utter faith you say thjings for a reason, please accept my apologies'
"no no your right I was clumsy in my approach"
I,of course was dumbfounded,naturally, momentarily bathed in heavenly light, I sipped my drink, forgetting about it.
"Jenny" His Holiness exclaimed
my ex!
"what do you have to do that for?!
"What for?'
"that for, your baiting me"
"just tryin g to keep your attention"
"oh believe me you have my attention,my devotion thats another story"
"oh who needs that? whats it all about little monkey?
"please don't call me that"
"don't be such a fussbudget"
I looked at the bottles. "so what are You getting at Jenny? My Love...
"you said IT boy"
"Jenny ?"
"oh big shit nice surprise, real groundbreaking revelation there God..."
"sorry if a single word answer falls short of your expectations there sport"
"ok so all you need is love, I got news for You My Most Grand Big Buddy, John Lennon said the same thing, and it got him shot in the head!'
"calm down,hell, they crucified me! He was shot in the upper torso by the way."
"yea but you died for our sins and all that shit. He just died"
"Did he?"
"you mean?"

excerpt from "Getting drunk with God"
unpublished crap I write to get over my ex's[list]God is everywhere. And everything.
‘Love never fades it just takes on different forms, John Lennon, Mahatma Gandhi, Betty Crocker, Mardi Gras, Herbal Tea, Sophia…’
“That was tough, wasn’t it?”
‘Love is real, you can ignore it, but its real”HE spoke with a toast, and I realized I had a glass in hand as well. The clinking glass rang like a church bell.

And the next morning it continued to ring throughout the day. I stumbled through work in muttering pain with hardly any recollection of when I arrived. A message on my machine from Troy ‘You make it? God man! What a mess you were last night. Call me dipshit.’ I sat staring at the blinking light of the answering machine trying to piece together the previous evening. Then I threw up the only evidence I had into the wastebasket.
I went home early. Two oclock. With the ‘flu’.
I was going to call Troy and ask him what in Gods name I did last night , my body decided to sleep instead. It was 11:00 pm when I woke. Starved. Shower. Dress. Late night pizza at Mamas, then to the bar where Troy had a coke waiting for me.
“whats this?”
“last night you said never to serve you another drink”
“ I must have been drunk”
Troy went downbar to serve lovely ladies I drank my soda suddenly afraid to look up, was I here last night? Christ.
Troy returned handing me a beer. ‘well, didn’t think I’d see you’
I tried to look as innocent as I could.
‘you don’t remember anything do you?’
I remained silent, hoping it would come to me in a sudden rush, it didn’t.
‘Well at least you guys had a good time’
‘You and whoever that was, good tip by the way.’
‘tip? How much was the tab?’
‘120 +100%’
‘since when do I tip that well?’
‘I don’t know since when do you prefer to sleep on the meat slicer?’
‘meat slicer?
‘yea that’s where I found you in the upstairs kitchen”
‘really. And you wanted to stay there too but I had DJDan take you home.’

I couldn’t put any more together, Troy couldn’t remember who I was with “it was busy all night you were only here an hour if that.’
120.00 bucks.1 hour.

I left after the soda, straight for bed. That night I dreamt of Charlton Heston draped in his Hebrew robe, powdered white hair glowing. Banging his fist on the bar, laughter, streaming tears out of his eyes. Someone told a ballbuster of joke and I missed the punch.

Work was work, hours went round, fluorescent lights burn holes in my head.
Upon returning from lunch, I had voice mail, ‘going into town tonight, pick you up at 10:00’ I couldn’t place the voice. I called Troy.
“wasn’t me, I’m working tonight’
Must have been Rich, its Thursday, only night since he and Casey had the baby that he gets out.

Later evening, I was watching the television into my second martini, when I realized I did not have any vodka, nor did I own any Styrofoam cups into which I had
poured the drink complete with olives of which I had none. The clock struck ten and the doorbell rang like a churchbell. I do not have a doorbell.
Before I could rise the door opened, I turned , it all came back to me at once, lo and behold there entered Our Lord Most High holding a bottle of Grey Goose and a bag of olives, with a man I had never seen before, who giggled and presented a plastic bag of icecubes.
God went to kitchen, and started fixing three drinks.
‘This is my buddy Mike’
Mike extended his hand. ‘Mike’ he said
‘Mike’ I repeated.
‘yea that’s right.’ He laughed lighting a joint.
‘God handed Mike and myself fresh Styrofoam martinis.
‘hears to ya’
I downed the whole cup, straigtening my arm I found the cup at once filled again
I’m. dreaming, I am asleep in my chair, and I am dreaming. Yes.
“does it matter either way?’ Mike said grinning.
‘I suppose not ‘ I replied
Before walking off for the bathroom God threw me a set of keys ‘your driving get some shoes on.’

Outside we stood before a brand new Mercedes Benz land cruiser, completely black with bare minimum chrome detailing.
‘truthfully its more than brand new, it’s a 2007, its designer will graduate from Cal Tech this year, all in all its his most gracefull design, although his 2012 model is a treat for the eye, its much more of a collectable, I prefer this one, don’t you think?
‘I can’t see into the future’ I stated plainly

‘Yea, well neither can Mike, hop in.
Post Wed May 07, 2003 4:14 pm
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Sage Francis
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It gets better  Reply with quote  

From: (Scott H. Neibarger)

The bible is a lot more than just a good read. It's responsible for far more than just pain and senseless death. How could you even begin to believe in a spiritual power if you believe what science teaches about evolutionary thought and how old our universe is? It seems to me that if there is any higher spiritual power, it doesn't care about all the senseless death and suffering that occurred over the evolutionary timeline.

Regardless of that, I have this to say:

Thanks for the prayer, but I'm not a Christian, and find that if you're just praying to whatever you think directs you, I'd say you're a bit lost. I'm a Jew, and I also happen to be a Jew who believes in the teachings of Jesus. You know, like those Jews who wrote the New Testament. That's sort of why I mentioned the bible being the source of the vast amount of metaphysical and spiritual thought.

If people actually read the Torah, they might find a bit of pluralism in it, but in reality, it's not pluralism so much as trying to understanding the nature of the Divine, regardless of how small our minds are. Note that I say 'our'. Even agnostics have small minds. And if you understand the Hebrew mindset, you can find what you just said: 'look within yourself' -- the Hebrew is lech lecha, and that's what God Almighty said to Abraham. It's oftentimes translated: "go forth", but the mystical meaning is 'look within yourself.' Hebrew has homonyms and multiple meanings just like any other language.

While Christianity is a bit far from its parent Judaism, it's certainly not the key to closing your mind, and Christianity has some powerful teachings, but the problem is we tend to just say they're closing their minds instead of trying to intellectually debate with them. If they close their minds, you can walk away instead of writing whiney songs about how terrible Christians are. You know, be positive about things instead of negative. What good does negativity do in the whole scheme of things? Although, that's sort of a nice freedom, the one that allows you the freedom to express yourself. Also, it's good to take into consideration the fact that not all human beings are created equal in terms of their physical abilities. Our founding fathers made that mistake by saying all men are created equal. They should've said all men are created with equal rights. All men are obviously not created equal when we've got retarded men on one end of the spectrum and brilliant geniuses on the other end of the spectrum, which are both seemingly the result of millions of years of pain and suffering.

I highly recommend that you check out the book: Answer to Job by C.G. Jung if you've not already read it.

I like your music quite a bit. The song with the lyric 'I'm making myself look pretty for you.' has some serious and significant metaphysical meaning to it in my mind, and if you meant it as I think you did, it's quite unfortunate that you're not seeing the metaphysical meaning to your lyrics. I could speak about that if you find yourself interested. I bought two of your CDs when you played at Emo's in Austin; I came with the fellow who brought you tacos. I remember you looking me in the eye as if you were intrigued, or, perhaps you thought I was just some other close-minded individual who wears Ralph Lauren shirts. Ralph Lauren is a Jew! I look forward to the next time you're in Austin. The show was awesome.

I got nothin' else.

Shalom aleychem
Post Wed May 07, 2003 5:10 pm
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agent 0 0 f

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i never would wish fame on anyone...nor would i want it after reading this
Post Wed May 07, 2003 5:44 pm

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Location: Wisconsin
Re: It gets better  Reply with quote  

\ I remember you looking me in the eye as if you were intrigued, or, perhaps you thought I was just some other close-minded individual who wears Ralph Lauren shirts. Ralph Lauren is a Jew!

This is why I only make eye contact with girls.
Post Wed May 07, 2003 5:51 pm
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Lazy Eyed Pea

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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Re: An email exchange inspired by Next Testament. 5/7/03  Reply with quote  

Sage Francis wrote:
Christianity...the key to closing your mind.

I get to do my god schpeal now. All the friends are almost as sick of it as I am. The above is terribly ignorant coming from someone as intelligent Sage. But religion is horrible, unless it's your own... Looking within yourself is excellent advice, but for a lot of people it's really hard to see through all the other people living in their bodies. There is a god. He exists only within each and every individual, believing in someone else's god will only turn you away from your own. The bible is great, it was written by some friends of a cool motherfucker who had some increadible beliefs and philosophies discovered through a very strong direct connection with his god. Christianity is a religion following the screwed up convoluted retold stories of a human 2000 years less evolved than we are. Talk about living in the past, or don't... "I found him, y'all, look within yourself." Sick line, unbelievable song. I feel like when Sage was doing stuff like The Next Testament with AOI he was really speaking his mind more and less afraid of his beliefs being disagreed with, even in this song the message is a little unclear. I've always heard all the good rappers talking about god and shrugged it off or ignored it or something... People with power need to spread the good word and not be scared. I lost a lot of friends who now think I'm a whackass born again Christian or some shit. 5 minutes with any of them could leave them palpitating, but I'm no asshole. Fuck religion, fuck other people's inventions. There's not a doubt in my body that there is a god, he speaks to me on a regular basis.

Post Wed May 07, 2003 10:09 pm
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Lazy Eyed Pea

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Just read Sage's post on this page, he redeemed himself for the Christianity comment and then some.
Post Wed May 07, 2003 10:16 pm
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Location: germany, europe, far out man!
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joking wrote:

?Yea, well neither can Mike, hop in.

thanks man.

Post Thu May 08, 2003 4:42 am
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I'm wondering if these christians (and the one jew) ever read back what they typed. Since they don't make a lot of sence, I understand what they're saying but damnnn, have you really given this a good thought???

I guess I'm also not a fan of living your life according to one book, guess what I got a book that says god doesn't excist. Do I believe that because some elder person told me "that's THE book". No just you read it, and take with you what interests you. And then go to the next book, seems a waste of time if your only sticking by one book (and that goes for all religions).

And if there is a god, he's one sick dude, (probably related to jerry springer)
Post Thu May 08, 2003 6:28 am
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I just don't think anyone can fuck with my God.

He would kick the SHIT out of your God, straight up.

My man Azuth...I'm telling you. He'll arcane the shit out of you.
Post Thu May 08, 2003 8:51 am
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That dude sounds like Jerry Falwell.
Post Thu May 08, 2003 9:02 am
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Lazy Eyed Pea

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 582
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MessiahCarey wrote:
I just don't think anyone can fuck with my God.

He would kick the SHIT out of your God, straight up.

My man Azuth...I'm telling you. He'll arcane the shit out of you.

My god said the capitol g was out of fashion. Leggo my ego said your god to mine as he scrambled to cover his nakedness after swinging and missing mine.
Post Thu May 08, 2003 1:01 pm
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Re: An email exchange inspired by Next Testament. 5/7/03  Reply with quote  

Sage Francis wrote:
The Bible is a good read. It has caused more senseless deaths than every disease combined.

Oh come on.

Too many deaths, yes. Overwhelmingly negative impact upon mankind, perhaps. More fatal than all diseases combined? Even rhetorically that's a silly thing to say. I mean... disease on the whole probably claims as many lives in a YEAR as Christianity ever has.

Most of the world isn't nice and clean like America.
Post Thu May 08, 2003 3:05 pm
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