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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11616
Location: MI
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what was 'poetry' called before 'poetry'<the word> was coined??????
Post Mon May 05, 2003 1:26 pm
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bobbythebear



Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Posts: 254
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bluntedinmichigan wrote:
what was 'poetry' called before 'poetry'<the word> was coined??????


I'm not certain about this one. I think that the "poem" we speak of today was born of the "monologue", not just the theatrical sort, but the camp fire story type as well, hence the inclusion of folk-tales as part of the "oral tradition". if someone can correct me, bring it
Post Mon May 05, 2003 1:58 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 2309
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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I believe it was coined by the ancient Greeks. That doesn't answer the question, but I just wanted to point it out.
Post Mon May 05, 2003 2:01 pm
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anaheim13



Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 334
Location: CA
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does "a rose by any other name, is still a rose" come to mind, or did i totally take it out of context?
Post Mon May 05, 2003 3:54 pm
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rlorg



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 474
attn jesse  Reply with quote  

Jesse wrote:
FireFly> that's one of those after-the-fact acronyms, like Gifted Unlimited Rhymes Universal or Witty, Unpredictable Talent And Natural Game.

--

Random> I think you and I are saying similar things, or that we're saying some of the same stuff, but I definitely disagree that that lump of crap you posted wasn't poetry.

Very often, when people get into defining what does or does not fall under the definition of a word, they bring their critical faculties into play where they're not neccessary. This happens with words like "art", "love", "hip hop", "punk", "human" "poetry" and many other concepts that people idealize.

They are (usually unconsciously) defending the purity of a concept that either they hold dear or has been taught to them by someone who values that supposed purity.

It's not correct, though. Awful poetry is still poetry. When you arrange words, especially in verse, you create a poem. The poem may very well be complete garbage, execrable, worthless and contemptible - but that doesn't change WHAT it is only HOW it is. A glass of juice that tastes disgusting is still juice. Quality is rarely part of a categorical definition.

People fall in love and it doesn't work out so they go "I thought I was in love, but I was wrong" because that way the concept of love remains untainted. People look at abstract art and declare it not art because if it's art and they don't understand it they must be uncultured rubes, so they preserve the term "art" as being stuff people make that they DO understand. People look at the acts of a depraved personality, shake their heads and say "that's just not human, he deserves to die" because if they reclassify a heinous offender as something other than what they know themselves to be, they escape the taint of their actions.

A shitty poem is a poem. Shitty (or oblique) art is art. An inhumane human is a human. Failed love is love.

Poetry is no kind of exclusive club, they let anyone in there.


jesse you know who noam chomsky is? you probably knew this already, but other than being a political thinker, he's also a linguist...in fact that's what he's most famous academically for. anyway, the stuff you're talking about, definitions of words and ideas and how the mind processes and learns language...he's written books and books and books on the stuff...actually for a good introduction you can download a speech by him call linguistics and philosophy, you can get it off kazaa most of the time...i don't know, just from what you said it sounded like you might be interested in this...
Post Mon May 05, 2003 6:59 pm
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FoNiKs



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 339
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Jesse wrote:
Sneeb, you're being silly. I mean almost everyone is being silly, but you're being VERY silly about this written page thing.

Guys, all of you, come on. A poem is merely a composition of language. Writing, reading, speaking as it comes to you - these are mere media for transmission. A poem is CONTENT.

It is true that technically, to "rap" is to speak. You can't really ask "is rap poetry" because that's like asking "is radio music?". They're not equivalent concepts. But are the LYRICS of rap poetry? Yes, they neccessarily are. A rapper is a poet when he writes his lyrics, and a performer when he raps them.

You might argue that the rap itself is not a poem, but then I would tell Sneeb that the page itself is not a poem. The poem is the content and that's all there is to it.

The answer is right in god damn front of you.


I haven't read the last two pages but this post in my oppinion sums it up
Post Mon May 05, 2003 7:05 pm
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
Re: attn jesse  Reply with quote  


Quote:

jesse you know who noam chomsky is? you probably knew this already, but other than being a political thinker, he's also a linguist...in fact that's what he's most famous academically for. anyway, the stuff you're talking about, definitions of words and ideas and how the mind processes and learns language...he's written books and books and books on the stuff...actually for a good introduction you can download a speech by him call linguistics and philosophy, you can get it off kazaa most of the time...i don't know, just from what you said it sounded like you might be interested in this...


I know who he is but I remain unfamiliar with his ouevre. I'll try and check out that speech (thanks for the recommendation) but I've heard he can be VERY dry when listened to so I hope I can absorb it properly.
Post Tue May 06, 2003 10:35 pm
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Soul Khansenses



Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 2110
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I think the most pertinent questions we must ask are,

"Why does my dad's semen taste like Powerade?"

and

"Does it have as many electrolytes?"

Let the grand debate begin.
Post Wed May 07, 2003 3:08 am
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: northern california
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well, i think it has other worthwhile nutrients but i just don't think it can have quite the perfect balance of electrolytes that powerade does. as for the taste, perhaps it is taht they both taste somewhat like salty water, and you therefore associate them?

hope i helped with these pressing issues,
peace.
Post Wed May 07, 2003 3:33 am
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