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is rap poetry?
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: northern california
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i suppose it is a somewhat strange way to put it, but i was hoping that because of that you would see my point, that these two things (performance and poetry) are inextricable from one another.

i'm a little disappointed that you brought album sales into the argument, since i don't think anyone would claim that ja rule is a "better" rapper than talib kweli simply because ja rule has more platinum plaques. not only does talib possess the content that ja rule is so obviously lacking, but he's a much better mc by the standard of making shit sound dope... i guess that's besides the point. anyway, eminem sells more records than anyone, and he obviously has a great deal of content on his records. he happens to be able to make it sound tight too...

i think i got way off topic there. anyway, i don't think poetry is written as a rule. for instance, two of the most famous poems of all time, the odyssey and the iliad, were expressed only vocally for many many years before someone wrote them down. it was still a poem when "homer"(who may or may not have existed i guess) was passing it on to whomever he passed it on to. poetry has its roots in a vocal expression of words, in songs, in spoken verses. poetry has merely been formalized into a written page over the years as people came to understand that they could compose poems with greater complexity more easily if they wrote them down. that does not mean that a poem is not spoken. i think that's the main misconception here. a song is a type of poem. not the lyrics, but the song itself... whether it be attached to a melody or a rhythm or whatever. so your comment that emceeing is not poetry because it is not written strikes me as bunk.


Last edited by iamjoao on Sun May 04, 2003 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:11 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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Poetry isn't supposed to be performed.... poetry really isn't even supposed to be read outloud... it's supposed to be read. Performing poetry is a bastard child of poetry steeped in the egotism of poets.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:13 pm
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: northern california
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as i explained above sneeb, poetry Started as performance... written poetry is the bastard child of spoken poetry really. there's been poetry longer than there's been paper to write it on.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:15 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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SneebDotCom wrote:
Poetry isn't supposed to be performed.... poetry really isn't even supposed to be read outloud... it's supposed to be read. Performing poetry is a bastard child of poetry steeped in the egotism of poets.



Thats not true at all. Poetry reading is part of the tradition.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:16 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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in all honesty
putting all msg board b.s. behind
DOES IT REALLY FUCKING MATTER?
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:17 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


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Say whuuuut? Beginning when, the 1950's?
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:18 pm
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Soul Khansenses



Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 2110
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SneebDotCom wrote:
Poetry isn't supposed to be performed.... poetry really isn't even supposed to be read outloud... it's supposed to be read. Performing poetry is a bastard child of poetry steeped in the egotism of poets.


Yeah, and Homer sold the Odyssey at the ancient Brentano's.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:19 pm
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: northern california
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say whuuuuut? starting before history began, tard.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:19 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


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The poems you stated were originally written my man... they were spoken vocally ONLY because there was no such thing as a printing press.

Don't get it twisted.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:23 pm
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Lazy Eyed Pea



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 582
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These discussions are what killed all the great poets. A poet knows his poetry. Rules were established by people unable to work the forces of creation for themselves and turned the beauty in language to another ugly science. Do you actually think Shakespeare tried to write in iambic pentameter? I'd love to see where studies of syllabic patterns in rap lyrics inevitably taking place after rap's been long dead take those bitter hateful english teachers who's poetry's sucked since they were sixteen... Poetry is language at its fullest in every aspect, I don't know who knows what 'flow' is but it's not what a rapper does. It's what distinguishes poetry from words.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:23 pm
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
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Location: northern california
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there are cultures with no written language who to this day pass on their songs and myths, often in verse and with melody and rhythm. but those are not songs? and songs are not poems?
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:25 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
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You are supposed to appreciate every word, and the placement of every fucking word. This is never, EVER conveyed vocally... EVER. You can give me nonsense Odyssey arguments all you want. I will bet my LIFE that if there were printing presses back when Homer did his thang that he would have said "yo, print it up, I worked hard on every word, i dont want you dickheads messing this up, this is going to be big"
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:26 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


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Those without a written language will never write a real poem... poetry is the epitome of the written word.


This is ending up being one of those sad arguments over semanics... fuck it, do whatever you want.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:30 pm
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
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Location: northern california
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you start off poorly with "you are supposed to..." which is bs. i'm not even indebted to this motherfucker to read or listen to the damn thing, and if i deign to do so i'm going to do it how i want. the artist can't travel around with his piece of art telling people what it's about, how to understand it, what each word or stroke is supposed to mean individually. that is left up to people's interpretation, and so i can interpret the poem or work how i please. perhaps homer would have wanted his shit printed if it was possible, but it wasn't and apparently he did not want it bad enough to invent it? debating the what ifs of a man who may just be a composite of several other men, or non-existent doesn't get us anywhere anyway. the point i'm trying to make which i still think is entirely valid is that poetry is poetry, be it spoken, written, or communicated telepathically. it's pointlessly narrow to define poetry as written, or as metrical or whatever, because once you define it a little bit there's a nagging temptation to define it a lot, and change it so that poetry is exactly what you want it to be. in the end you have a preconceived notion of poetry and whatever doesn't fit into that falls by the wayside. that's conducive to willful ignorance, which i think is fairly despicable.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:32 pm
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Krang
THE ORC BREATH


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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When you read poetry (or anything) think about what you're thinking about at the time.... in your mind you are actually sounding out the words in your head. How else would you know if a poem rhymed or not?
So why is it that you're supposed to sound out a poem in your head but NEVER read it aloud? What about if you wanna tell someone a poem that you read? Do you have to find paper and a pen and write it down for them as not to destroy the poem for good with your poetry-destroying speach?

This is actually one of the stupidest arguments i've seen on this board.

Of course poetry is allowed to be read out loud.

Who are you to say what poets can and can't do with their work?
Post Sun May 04, 2003 8:33 pm
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