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is rap poetry?
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Sheika



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Calgary, AB
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personally, i think if we allow academic definitions of art and its cross over capabilities between artistic realms [ie poetry to music] to take over our perception of what quality art is [whether it be word, color, movement] then we compromise the freedom that words etc have the potential to induce. the dada-ist movement consisted of 'poems' like: sex murder art. and that was all. poetry as a form of expression should not have to compete with anything. 'hey man my feelings are more competant than yours'. however, i believe poetry as a performance art or with the intention of being shared with an audience should strive to create a bridge of understanding between poet/speaker and audience. i think there are numerous examples of music which accomplishe this. yeah. sorry that was bordering on bombast. apologies
Post Sat May 03, 2003 8:01 pm
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Pete Jukes



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 2
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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You shouldn't define poetry, you shouldn't define rap.
this is how you make me feel:

Unfinished Poem

Bent like
a flagpole,
I wait
listening
to still born thoughts
given as opinions

and

as my motionless hand taps
back at the wind, she pauses-
I refrain;
"It's cold, I'm going inside."

Beneath
the closet side of
the bedroom,
I stumble, fleeing
an angel who doesn't
know she has wings yet.
I wanna rub mud in her eyes
then let her cast rocks at me

Thinking- a poem is what
happens, nothing happens
in a poem.


And seeing what was
happening at the moment
I felt like an unfinished
Bukowski poem
where Hank is reaching
for a drink
and laughing about something
sad.
Post Sat May 03, 2003 11:06 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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This may have been said... I didn't really read anything here... but uhhh.. anyone who tries to define poetry, nor less think they HAVE defined poetry will never write a real poem. That's all I have to say about that.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 12:50 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19374
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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a word without a definition is just a sound.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 12:56 am
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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^^^ PFFFTTTTT.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 12:57 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19374
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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haha
Post Sun May 04, 2003 1:10 am
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Krang
THE ORC BREATH


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 811
Location: NSW, australia
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If a composer (rapper in this case) considers their work poetry then it is poetry.

That's the way i see it. Sure it may be BAD poetry, but who am I to disagree with wether someone is making poetry or not.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 2:44 am
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anaheim13



Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 334
Location: CA
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i think this guy understands that rap can be considered poetry in some way or another (all things that rhyme, even if they dont, can be considered in some way to be poetry, if you want it), but he argues, if rap doesnt have the same value as the poetry he likes or he accepts as real poetry, then its is bad poetry and should never be in existence.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 9:16 am
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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anaheim13 wrote:
i think this guy understands that rap can be considered poetry in some way or another (all things that rhyme, even if they dont, can be considered in some way to be poetry, if you want it), but he argues, if rap doesnt have the same value as the poetry he likes or he accepts as real poetry, then its is bad poetry and should never be in existence.


by that token...all poetry that doesn't hold up to his standards shouldn't exist either

I dont' think that's what he's been saying
Post Sun May 04, 2003 9:21 am
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anaheim13



Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 334
Location: CA
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RandomSurge wrote:
anaheim13 wrote:
i think this guy understands that rap can be considered poetry in some way or another (all things that rhyme, even if they dont, can be considered in some way to be poetry, if you want it), but he argues, if rap doesnt have the same value as the poetry he likes or he accepts as real poetry, then its is bad poetry and should never be in existence.


by that token...all poetry that doesn't hold up to his standards shouldn't exist either

I dont' think that's what he's been saying



so what is he saying? i cant tell cuz big words, hurt head...
Post Sun May 04, 2003 9:33 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19374
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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who is what saying now?

I've been saying that intent is the main ingredient in whether something should be considered poetry or not. I haven't been talking about quality at all. I'm not saying poetry is better or worse than rap. Personally I like the rap music more than reading poetry. But that doesn't mean anything beyond personal preference. I think people who want to consider rap, poetry do so because they think rap can't stand alone, that if it's not poetry it is some how inferior.

But I'm really getting nowhere with any of this, so I'll shut up now with my wack opinions.
word.
*does fred carter pointing action*
Post Sun May 04, 2003 10:42 am
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karl



Joined: 21 Jul 2002
Posts: 755
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Rap is not poetry.

All poetry is bad poetry.

Poetry should not depend on how loud you can yell, or how rhymically you can talk, so most Poetry Slam Poets are questionable.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 2:14 pm
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: northern california
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so, by some of the arguments in this thread, if i go to a reading by an author, say, Don DeLillo, and he reads something from his latest novel, say, The Body Artist, then in so doing, he transforms his work from a novel into some kind of performance art? fuck no, it's still a novel and DeLillo is still a novelist.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 3:10 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19374
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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iamjoao wrote:
so, by some of the arguments in this thread, if i go to a reading by an author, say, Don DeLillo, and he reads something from his latest novel, say, The Body Artist, then in so doing, he transforms his work from a novel into some kind of performance art? fuck no, it's still a novel and DeLillo is still a novelist.


that's not right at all. Him performing his book, makes the performance, if you want to judge it, a performance--however, the writing, the actual writing, was intended as a book. And that's how the novel is judged. It's not judged by how the fuck he reads it. It's by how he wrote it. Whereas in music the words may not be great on the page, but they may sound dope because of the way it is said--the way something is said is performance, and NOT poetry which is a written thing. If you argue backwards from the point you just made, then rap could also be a novel if you felt like calling it that.
and...umm...it's not.

Rap is a performance art. Poetry is not. Theoretically rap could be poetry if the lyrics were presented as such, but if they were, then they would cease to be rap, because, as stated, rap is a performance art.

A novel isn't a performance art.
A reading is a performance. Just like old style storytelling campfire tales.

I know this can't be that complicated. But so far Karl is the only person who understands what I'm writing.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 4:16 pm
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iamjoao



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: northern california
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i understand exactly what you're saying. apparently i can't disagree with you without misunderstanding you.

I'm only saying that poetry meant to be read aloud may be performance art but it is also poetry. all poetry is based on how words sound, and from this we derive poetic devices like onomotapeia, consonance, assonance, rhyme, meter etc etc etc. all things poetic are essentially derived from spoken language. therefore, why should a spoken poem be classified as anything other than a poem? and why should one who writes such poems, with the intent to speak them aloud be classified as anything other than a poet? i think people are just too caught up in the respect they feel they owe the word poetry, which is really nothing.

there is no real difference between lyrics and poetry. in fact, poetry is often described as "lyrical" and there is a type of poetry known as lyric poetry, often songlike in form etc etc. so why delineate one man as a "rapper" and one man as a poet when really they are doing the same thing? that's bullshit, and the only reason you would want to do that is to categorize one of them as lesser and one of them as greater. so really, taking offense when someone is called a poet is tantamount to saying that they are NOT a poet, and therefore that they are inferior to those who ARE called poets. i think that's a dick move, but i guess people can do what they want.
Post Sun May 04, 2003 4:48 pm
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