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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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One thing...Know that EVERY religion is somewhat corrupt...It is about YOU and YOUR spirituality...You have it a little wrong with the Christian thing though...The MEN who worship have setup hierarchy...But the pure form of Christianity is totally opposed to this...The Men are wrong, the original doctrine is right...

Lastly, Religion=Nothing, SPIRITUALITY=Everything, Its about your spirit, not always your methods...
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:07 am
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emynd



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 2786
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hugh grants hooker wrote:
why do people still question when someone seeks out a religion they feel more comfortable with? why do people still question the desire for religion at all? this is 2003! people should be used to it now.


Because it sounds like dude is picking a religion that basically let's him believe whatever he wants. Why does he need the religion to let him believe whatever he wants? Can't he just believe whatever he wants? It's just wierd to me.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:08 am
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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It almost seems lazy...
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:14 am
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hugh grants hooker
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it may seem like a lazy thing to you, thats fine i guess.

but the way i see it any religion is fine as long as it traces ITSELF, and its people back to some origin or creation of mankind.
i am really cautious of any religion that admittedly 'just started' one day.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:19 am
 
hugh grants hooker
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reggie youre unitarian?
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:20 am
 
firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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I don't feel like I NEED a religion and I don't think that Paganism let's me believe what ever I want, nor am I interested in such a religion. I ALREADY beleive in what ever I want and I have always believed that I am closer to God then Christianity tells us. It's all around us, it's NATURE.

I'm not looking for a label or a catogory to put myself in. I don't feel the need to be accepted by a group. I just feel compelled to celebrate the Natural cycles of life, of the seasons, of death and rebirth. I have always said that I am fortunate that I live in a climate that let's me experience the four seasons, their is something magical about it.

I don't see myself as a kid in a candy store picking and choosing what I wish to believe. Although I have always done that in a way. I've read a lot about religion and I kept saying to myself "This makes a lot of sense" and "Nah, that sounds bogus." And I'm sure that I will learn things about Paganism that I don't agree with either but that's okay. Since the information I have and will get do not come from the same person it is only natural that their will be a difference in opinion.

Emynd - Here's my motive. It has a lot to do with this being the last day of April and my last day of smoking weed (cause I start school in June and want to be in tip top shape) and I know that when you quit a drug you need a plan and a change in lifestyle. Buddhism has taught me a lot about attachment and desire and it helped me get trhough a Real tough time in my life. I'm hoping that studying everything I could find about Paganism will keep me busy and be a crucial part of me dramatically chaning my lifestyle. Also, have other plans, like getting back into Tai Chi and exercising again.

I also feel that since moving back to the city a lot of the Magic in my life has been gone. In the country everything was so beautiful and I was so bored that everything seemed magical. I quickly stopped careing about this when I moved and I haven't looked back, but now I feel like I have lost a connection to something deep and lost a lot of Love for this world.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:30 am
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emynd



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 2786
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FireFly wrote:
I don't feel like I NEED a religion and I don't think that Paganism let's me believe what ever I want, nor am I interested in such a religion. I ALREADY beleive in what ever I want and I have always believed that I am closer to God then Christianity tells us. It's all around us, it's NATURE.

I'm not looking for a label or a catogory to put myself in. I don't feel the need to be accepted by a group. I just feel compelled to celebrate the Natural cycles of life, of the seasons, of death and rebirth. I have always said that I am fortunate that I live in a climate that let's me experience the four seasons, their is something magical about it.

I don't see myself as a kid in a candy store picking and choosing what I wish to believe. Although I have always done that in a way. I've read a lot about religion and I kept saying to myself "This makes a lot of sense" and "Nah, that sounds bogus." And I'm sure that I will learn things about Paganism that I don't agree with either but that's okay. Since the information I have and will get do not come from the same person it is only natural that their will be a difference in opinion.

Emynd - Here's my motive. It has a lot to do with this being the last day of April and my last day of smoking weed (cause I start school in June and want to be in tip top shape) and I know that when you quit a drug you need a plan and a change in lifestyle. Buddhism has taught me a lot about attachment and desire and it helped me get trhough a Real tough time in my life. I'm hoping that studying everything I could find about Paganism will keep me busy and be a crucial part of me dramatically chaning my lifestyle. Also, have other plans, like getting back into Tai Chi and exercising again.

I also feel that since moving back to the city a lot of the Magic in my life has been gone. In the country everything was so beautiful and I was so bored that everything seemed magical. I quickly stopped careing about this when I moved and I haven't looked back, but now I feel like I have lost a connection to something deep and lost a lot of Love for this world.



Ok, thanks.

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to be confrontational, just curious because I didn't understand your desire for a religion.

So, thanks for the response.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:40 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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hugh grants hooker wrote:
reggie youre unitarian?


Yes.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:41 am
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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"I don't feel like I NEED a religion and I don't think that Paganism let's me believe what ever I want, nor am I interested in such a religion. I ALREADY beleive in what ever I want and I have always believed that I am closer to God then Christianity tells us. It's all around us, it's NATURE"

You DO feel like you NEED a religion because you have demonstrated to us your searches in finding one...

Saying you are CLOSER to God than Christianity is? That's a foolish statement because you are comparing relativley to other religions...You should focus on your SPIRITUAL progress...It's not about being ahead of the other...PURE Christianity teaches us this...As do many other "religions"...We run a race with ourselves and compare to no other man or object...It is about your spiritual well-being...

"I'm not looking for a label or a catogory to put myself in. I don't feel the need to be accepted by a group"

While some do follow orthodox teaching for this reason, to say this statement almost degrades those who chose for the right reasons...Were you caught up in what you now oppose earlier?

You seem to be bringing Christianity into this alot...Just thought that strikes me as odd...You almost make it a foundation for comparison...Why?
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:12 am
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Zumbracha



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 6
Location: St. Paul
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http://www.breathlessnoon.com/ or http://www.mothersmagic.com/

http://www.kisstheviolets.org/padma
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:25 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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Doctrine - I said that I believe that I am closer to God then Christiantiy tells us, not that I am closer to God then Christianity. And when I say "I" I mean "We." Christianity makes God seem so distant and un-touchable (at least that's how I interpret it) I think it's to inforce Fear into God and to make the people feel weak. I believe that I, we, am more powerful that they have us believe.

When you speak of "PURE Christianity" I think you are actually speaking of Paganism.

How do I degrade people who follow a religion for the right reason? If people join a sect out of a need to be accepted then I think that is un-healthy. I don't think I understand what you mean.

I bring up Christianity a lot because this is the religion that virtually killed Pan (our nymph fucking, goat headed demi-god) and made it look like Paganism is Satanism. They killed thousands of people (as well as the Muslims) for practicing "withcraft" so they could have absolute power. I also compare the two because Christianity is apart of MY culture, unlike Buddhism or Hinduism (which I like much more) and it has been the reason for my distaste in religion.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:44 pm
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natas sevol dog



Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 345
Location: dallas area
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i know one person who is into paganism and he is the most arrogant and self riteous person about religion ive met in a while. hes my boss at work and decided to lecture me for about an hour about his particular beliefs, then when he was almost dont he said something like "ya i know now your gonna look at what you believe differntly and your gonna take some of what i told you but you wont believe the exact same as me etc.." i wanted to tell him to shut the fuck up because im not going to learn about spirituality from some boss at work who lies all the time about drugs thinking it makes him cool. oh yeah, and he told me he had proof of god existing and what he was. 2nd oh yeah, he said he got this pentagram tattoo the "real" way with natural ink and a knife and a hammer, he said that it took two hours(its a 1 inch and one color) and he said that anyone who doesnt do it this way is a pussy and shouldnt have tattoos.

sorry for rambling, anyways firefly hope you have fun
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:02 pm
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dab amrahk



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 9
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Christianity is infused with paganism. If you don't think so, look into the front window of a few of the houses on your block during Christmas and you'll most likely find a tree sitting square in the living room.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:03 pm
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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dallasbboy> I'm not an atheist via logic. I didn't work out some formula that ended in "ergo there is no god QED". I do feel like my perspectives are founded in a degree of reason, though. I don't have any proof of the NON-existance of anything. There kind of is no such thing as the proof of the non-existance of anything. I simply mean that I don't think it's sensible to choose to believe in something where the burden of proof has been incurred but not met. It's easy to not believe in something... that's kind of the default setting until one is otherwise influenced. But why do so many people believe that something...

...wait a second... that's not even what I'm saying. I mean, that's stuff I would say so there it is, but what I was talking about was selective belief.

Incidentally, there is a pretty simple mathematical system for signifying divinity. It's binary. One or zero. My divinity dipswitch is set to return a value of zero. ^_^

HGH> Yeah but how long have they been considered "sects of Paganism"? That's my whole point. They're ancient faiths, pretty much everything encompassed in the umbrella term of "Paganism" is or derives from something ancient... but its their SYNTHESIS that is new. Druids and say.... ancient Egyptians were never associated until the dominance of The Big Three middle eastern cults lumped them in with one another... the only category "Pagan" faiths belong to is "not Christian".

Further, when you say:


Quote:

this still surprises me though. everyone has such strong feelings on religion.
its a natural thing, so why do people still question when someone seeks out a religion they feel more comfortable with? why do people still question the desire for religion at all? this is 2003! people should be used to it now.


We may be used to, say, the glass ceiling, skinned knees and air pollution but does that mean we should abandon their discussion? Perhaps it's unfair to lump religion in with three such unpopular concepts, but perhaps some of us DO think it's time for a change...?

Moreover, I think it's strange that you say "still". Until perhaps... let's generously say two hundred years ago... "the desire for religion at all" was taken as a given by every man woman and child on the whole of the planet Earth. Doesn't it seem to you as though questioning it is a development rather than something that's "still" going on? Or do you think that we've had about enough of that and it's time to pursue another line of inquiry?
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:10 pm
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Micranot



Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 134
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dallasbboy wrote:
Jesse wrote:

Not that I personally believe in cosmic truth or anything at all, I'm personally a very satisfied atheist. But it defies all logic to just DECIDE to believe something you've seen no compelling evidence of.



You write that as if being an atheist is logical.

The defniition of faith is belief without proof, this includes atheists because they believe there is no supreme being WIHTOUT any proof just as others believe the existance of one.

Proof by induction is strengthened as confirming instances pile up. But we can never bring certainty unless every possible case is actually examined, in which case they become deductions but there is no way to view divinity in the mathematical manner so its useless.

Brian


Which is precisely why agnosticism is so much better than athiesm.
Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:18 pm
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