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had to do it: factory farming
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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SYmbi0sis



Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 46
Location: St PAUL
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oh...

and another thing,

mass education was only istituted after mass suffrage was given. they have done a good job influencing most you cats vote!!!
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:02 pm
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Micranot



Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Re: Brilliant arguments--really . . .  Reply with quote  

"and I'm not quite sure how you know these things without doing a careful study of the history of food in human history--common sense and pop-evolutionary theory are not very useful guides here"

bioanthropology 300 courses at my university, its a pretty direct, obvious and simplistic relationship, fight it all you want. Sounds like you either really want to be in college or are currently there, but try taking some human anthro courses sometime, youll learn all you need to know about human eating habits throughout their development/history.

i never made a direct comparison as to the badness of eating contaminated beef vs veggies, and i never once grouped them under the "same umbrella", my point was 95% of the shit we ingest is bad for us, a substantial amount worse than meat but i dont have any numbers on that. So his argument of how unsanitary/unhealthy cattle raising/eating is is moot, living in a city with heavy traffic, eating fruits with chemicals all over them, whatever. My point was not that veggies are as bad as meat, or even to compare them, but to try to convince meat eaters to quit because of the unhealthy aspects of it are rediculous, my best friend is a vegetarian and one of the most unhealthy people i know.

And sure we eat more beef now. Eat more grain too. More cheeses. More sodas. More sodium intake, caloric intake, hrmm... In fact, considering the much more efficient methods we have of food production currently, holy shit! we eat more of practically everything now! I think if we are going to look to improve our overall diet, we should stop focusing on 1 aspect of many that contributes to our nations overall state of unhealthyness, and instead teach people how to fucking eat right.

Funny, the things you criticized my post for (btw, people will respect what you have to say a lot more if you dont waltz in and immediately assume the pompous ass routine, arbitrarily deciding he knows more than everyone who posted. Telling me my rhetorical/argumentative skills are fundamentally flawed when ive had 4+ years of rhetorical/debate training and have been mentored by my father who was a lawyer since i can remember... You can see why you strike me strongly as a HS senior, but lets not turn this into the biggest argumentative cock contest. Just because you act like you know what the fuck youre talking about obivously means you dont, your post was complete trash as far as trying to communicate any valid points or offer any appropriate rebutalls [other than idiot pot legalization comment]) are pervasive throughout yours, complete lack of any support, essentially one huge anecdotal peice with some ill advised diction throws in there too, might wanna get back in practice or something.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:30 pm
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play_the_hater



Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 26
!  Reply with quote  

in our world today, and specially in this great society of ours, the bottom line ALWAYS comes down to money..

it doesn't matter whether or not eating animals is healthy or not...

it comes down to how much profit a corporation is going to make..

and they couldn't give a fuck if that stuff kills you
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:49 pm
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imatopos



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 91
Micranot  Reply with quote  

Micranot: Ouch--those rheorical skills are indeed on fire my man! If I had known about your training, I might have thought twice about posting.

Just so you know, and you would know this if you had bothered to read carefully, I wasn't making any arguments--I simply asked questions to the people who were making arguments (and lodged a few sarcastic putdowns in between questions). If you want to go head to head with me in a real debate on these issues, PLEASE do. It would be nice to hear a decent argument in defense of your position. By the way, ask your dad what an ad hominem fallacy is so that you avoid using them in the future. You also might want to know what red herrings are because both of your responses are riddled with them. And oh yeah--anecdotal? where did I wax anecdotal? And ill-advised diction? where did I employ it? As for waltzing in, I'm not quite sure how else to enter a message board. I post here all of the time (comparatively speaking), and have been here for ages (again comparatively speaking--I've been here for a couple of years). In the future, I'll consider beginning with "permission to speak" posts.

As for me going back to school, I'm afraid that's not going to happen any time soon. But you are right about one thing--I do wish I was in college as a student. I spent a lot of time there a while back, but it's all over now. It's kind of sad--after you earn a PhD, they tell you to leave, so I had to go. The real irony is that I earned my PhD in philosophy, specializing in ethics and philosophical anthropology and yet I seem to know nothing about the massive amounts of knowledge you've obtained in your Bioanthro 300 course. Man, did I miss out! You know, the real bitch about this is that I actually co-teach a similar course to the one you describe. I better go do my homework before my next lecture . . . And the biggest bitch of all is that I've taught symbolic logic every year for the past six years and as it turns out, according to you I don't know logic either! I definitely got screwed in my education somewhere. I'm just glad I was able to secure a tenure-track professorship and publish articles and books in this field before someone found out. Mr. Micranot, will you keep my secret safe for me? Tell your dad I said "sup." I'm out.

Matt
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:15 pm
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Micranot



Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Re: Micranot  Reply with quote  

imatopos wrote:
Micranot: Ouch--those rheorical skills are indeed on fire my man! If I had known about your training, I might have thought twice about posting.

Just so you know, and you would know this if you had bothered to read carefully, I wasn't making any arguments--I simply asked questions to the people who were making arguments (and lodged a few sarcastic putdowns in between questions). If you want to go head to head with me in a real debate on these issues, PLEASE do. It would be nice to hear a decent argument in defense of your position. By the way, ask your dad what an ad hominem fallacy is so that you avoid using them in the future. You also might want to know what red herrings are because both of your responses are riddled with them. And oh yeah--anecdotal? where did I wax anecdotal? And ill-advised diction? where did I employ it? As for waltzing in, I'm not quite sure how else to enter a message board. I post here all of the time (comparatively speaking), and have been here for ages (again comparatively speaking--I've been here for a couple of years). In the future, I'll consider beginning with "permission to speak" posts.

As for me going back to school, I'm afraid that's not going to happen any time soon. But you are right about one thing--I do wish I was in college as a student. I spent a lot of time there a while back, but it's all over now. It's kind of sad--after you earn a PhD, they tell you to leave, so I had to go. The real irony is that I earned my PhD in philosophy, specializing in ethics and philosophical anthropology and yet I seem to know nothing about the massive amounts of knowledge you've obtained in your Bioanthro 300 course. Man, did I miss out! You know, the real bitch about this is that I actually co-teach a similar course to the one you describe. I better go do my homework before my next lecture . . . And the biggest bitch of all is that I've taught symbolic logic every year for the past six years and as it turns out, according to you I don't know logic either! I definitely got screwed in my education somewhere. I'm just glad I was able to secure a tenure-track professorship and publish articles and books in this field before someone found out. Mr. Micranot, will you keep my secret safe for me? Tell your dad I said "sup." I'm out.

Matt




haha, a PHD who right after i say lets not turn this into the bigger argumentative penis contest, does just that! Interesting, for all youve learned and experianced as a teacher, all others have done to teach you, this is how you respond to people (not just me, everyone in this thread). You really have something to prove to us it sounds, you could have just been the mature, older teacher you say you are, but its the weirdest thing, you post here your qualifications are rampant, but at the complete abscence of any of the maturity i would expect anyone who had been through enough to get PHD.

I guess my professors are dead wrong, and youre right... I am not sure what the point of that is, are you saying I was taught wrong? Because if so, I would love to see the research youve done on topics pertaining to what we have discussed so that I can better educate the faculty here at my school.

I just wish all my professors had the graces and intellect you do, can i switch into your class?
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:22 pm
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ihaveagluegun



Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 907
Location: Austin, Tx
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I revel in my selfishness and hatred for all
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:42 pm
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imatopos



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 91
I'm a bad boy  Reply with quote  

Dear Micranot--

Let me try again. As far as I can tell, I have yet to mount a single argument, so the penis/cock/phallus argumentative contest you speak of is moot. I have no interest in exposing my cock, flaccid or erect it's not that impressive. The questions were meant to provoke people to argue their points rather than rely on cliches and mindless rhetoric.

And I would never say your professors are dead wrong--I don't know them. They could be the leaders in the field for all I know. But the question of what a "natural" human diet is cannot be resolved by empirical study or knowledge gained froma single class. It's a much bigger, and more complicated, question than that. And how this knowledge we have about our "natural" diet impacts on ethical decisions about how we eat is also a very difficult issue.

So in the name of switching this debate back on to the topic, I'll stop going back and forth with you and ask you a very direct question. People have tried to make an argument saying that factory farming is ethically questionable because it harms sentient beings when there are other, less harmful ways of obtaining nutrition. There are many other arguments one could make on behalf of a vegetarian diet but this seems to be the main one. So the question is, if you try to avoid harming human beings whenever possible (I assume that's true--maybe it's not), why do you not extend the same basic courtesy to nonhuman animals? Can you determine for me and others here why you would advocate different treatment of humans and animals? That would be the first question to deal with--after that, the debate could move to another level. So let's play nice and discuss this issue. I'll keep my penis in my pants for now, but piss me off, and I swear I'll pull it out.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:47 pm
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