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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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ihaveagluegun wrote:
ive said all i can say, whats there is fact, truth, law, and just.
and once you start to change these laws, you too can get fucked.
you are beyond help obviously, if you WANTED to understand you would by now, i have a feeling you care about arguing, not understanding


I'm not having any problems with carey and bleys
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:33 pm
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sliquid



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 173
Location: Kansass City
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Since when does wearing a harmless peace shirt advocate being kicked out of anywhere?

This is such a stupid argument. The guy should have had the right to wear the shirt. It was not profane, it was not offensive.

You have some Barney Fife wanna be trying to be a hard ass because he doesn't like a "give peace a chance" shirt. If it where me I would have been thrown in jail for strangling the fucking rent a cop who was busting this guys balls.

I understand that he was asked to leave, but he was a paying customer of the mall. There is NO reason why he should have been asked to leave because of a peace shirt.It was a fucking peace shirt for christs sakes. I hope the rent a pigs that busted this guys balls are typing up a new resumes or filling out some new job aps.

Get real, wake up and realize that this is just the begining. If we allow this kind of bullshit to continue, then you are letting your rights slip away.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:33 pm
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ihaveagluegun



Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 907
Location: Austin, Tx
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your'e wrong, sorry, im out now
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:33 pm
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Bleys



Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 156
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RandomSurge wrote:
MessiahCarey wrote:

Basically, I've heard the same EXACT argument you're using used to defend a friend of a friend (not my friend) for wearing a swastika on his sweatshirt.



what's wrong with that? is he doing anything? if he is caught doing something, then arrest him. But I don't see the problem with that at all

one person wears a piece sign, the other a swastika...the law upholds the rights of both people to do so

if the friend of your friend had bought that sweatshirt in the mall, and they had told him to take it off and he refused and got arrested for it

I'd be here arguing


The law upholds the right of people to do so in PUBLIC... a mall is privately owned.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:33 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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Bleys wrote:
So your view is that you should be able to wear anything you purchase in a store in the store as long as it does not interfere with obscenity laws?


or any other laws that make some sense...I don't see anything wrong with that
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:34 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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Bleys wrote:


The law upholds the right of people to do so in PUBLIC... a mall is privately owned.


you're going in circles with that...we already talked about that
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:35 pm
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Bleys



Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 156
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sliquid wrote:
Get real, wake up and realize that this is just the begining. If we allow this kind of bullshit to continue, then you are letting your rights slip away.


You have it backwards. Taking away the rights of the mall owners is where you start to see your rights slipping away.

Again, I'll concur with what MessiahCarey said. I don't find their reasons very good, I just don't think they were unlawful, or should be.

If you want to protest what the mall did, you can't rely on changing the laws (which in and of itself is a bad move). You CAN protest and petition the mall.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:36 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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Bleys wrote:

If you want to protest what the mall did, you can't rely on changing the laws (which in and of itself is a bad move). You CAN protest and petition the mall.


yeah, you guys got through to me with that. But aren't you protesting and petitioning so that the mall can't do that anymore? doesn't that force them to "ammend" the law?
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:38 pm
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Bleys



Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 156
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RandomSurge wrote:
Bleys wrote:
So your view is that you should be able to wear anything you purchase in a store in the store as long as it does not interfere with obscenity laws?


or any other laws that make some sense...I don't see anything wrong with that


Ok.

So how about this scenario:

I own a World War 2 memorabilia shop. I sell some shirts and stuff with swastikas on them, but only because it's part of the history.

Some guy comes into my shop and BUYS a German bomber jacket with a big, offensive (to me at least, because I'm Jewish) swastika on the back. Do I have to let him wear it? I would hope not.

Say he bought it at my shop last week, now he comes back to buy more stuff and wears the jacket into the shop. Again the swastika is offensive to me, but he did buy it at my shop. So, do I have to let him wear it? Again, I hope not.

According to you, though, I would in both of these situations.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:39 pm
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Bleys



Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 156
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RandomSurge wrote:
Bleys wrote:

If you want to protest what the mall did, you can't rely on changing the laws (which in and of itself is a bad move). You CAN protest and petition the mall.


yeah, you guys got through to me with that. But aren't you protesting and petitioning so that the mall can't do that anymore? doesn't that force them to "ammend" the law?


Naw, you'd be protesting and petitioning the MALL to change their specific policy. Just this mall, not every mall in the country.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:41 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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BLEYS:

in that scenario, you're mentioning something you're uncomfortable with as the reason why you would have the guy leave your store

well I'm uncomfortable with not being able to wear something I bought in your store, in your store

both sides have rights...where's the balance?


Last edited by Nope on Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:42 pm
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sliquid



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 173
Location: Kansass City
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I don't have shit backwards.

Our rights are already being taken away from us.

This is just a drop in the bucket.

What they did may not be technically illegal, but it was wrong.

They were basically harrassing a 61 year old man. And they didn't even give avalid reason why he needed to take it off.

To me, that is bullshit. As a paying customer I would at least expect a valid reason, on why my shirt needed to be taken off. Not just, do it or else.
These guys got a hard on ushing this old man around.

If it happened to you, would you not be upset by it?
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:42 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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Bleys wrote:


Naw, you'd be protesting and petitioning the MALL to change their specific policy. Just this mall, not every mall in the country.


well it would have been the STATE...not the country...

but yeah, that makes sense because the scenario hasn't come up in other malls...
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:43 pm
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sliquid



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 173
Location: Kansass City
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Bleys wrote:
RandomSurge wrote:
Bleys wrote:
So your view is that you should be able to wear anything you purchase in a store in the store as long as it does not interfere with obscenity laws?


or any other laws that make some sense...I don't see anything wrong with that


Ok.

So how about this scenario:

I own a World War 2 memorabilia shop. I sell some shirts and stuff with swastikas on them, but only because it's part of the history.

Some guy comes into my shop and BUYS a German bomber jacket with a big, offensive (to me at least, because I'm Jewish) swastika on the back. Do I have to let him wear it? I would hope not.

Say he bought it at my shop last week, now he comes back to buy more stuff and wears the jacket into the shop. Again the swastika is offensive to me, but he did buy it at my shop. So, do I have to let him wear it? Again, I hope not.

According to you, though, I would in both of these situations.


Are you tring to say, that a peace symbol is in anyway as offensive as a swastika? You are talking about a hate symbol, as compared to a love symbol.

Please explain how a peace symbol is bad, or offensive, or any reason to be kicked out of anywhere. If you can do it without using some other crappy example, then maybe you can change my mind.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:46 pm
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sliquid



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 173
Location: Kansass City
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RandomSurge wrote:
Bleys wrote:


Naw, you'd be protesting and petitioning the MALL to change their specific policy. Just this mall, not every mall in the country.


well it would have been the STATE...not the country...

but yeah, that makes sense because the scenario hasn't come up in other malls...


You can't protest at malls...

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/03/04_protest.html

On Saturday, March 1, eight members (five men, three women) of the Baltimore Iraq Pledge of Resistance were arrested at the Towsontown Mall in Baltimore County for distributing anti-war leaflets to mall shoppers.

The group was peaceful, non-confrontational, non-verbal unless engaged first by someone with questions and/or desire to know more and careful not to impede traffic or interfere with access to stores and walkways. Although we were there as a group, we acted as individuals so as not to create a disturbance.

The "disturbance" occurred only when about fifteen Baltimore County police showed up. The group was asked to leave and refused to do so, citing our First Amendment rights, which, at least as of this date, are still part of our Constitution. After dialogue with the police, eight of us were arrested and led out of the mall to hundreds of applauding shoppers, most of whom were supporting the group's action.

We were held for 14 hours, overnight, in the Baltimore County jail, Towson precinct with no food, one cup of water between us three women (there were 5 men as well), many of us handcuffed the entire 14 hours to a metal bench, all of us in leg shackles. The air conditioner was on us all night, even though it was about 25 degrees outside. One police officer chanted USA, USA, No Blood for Oil - and then made the sound of bombs falling and exploding over our cell speakers - an action we consider harassment.

The police were careful to say that we have every right to our beliefs and to protest but their holding us for 14 hours, charging us with THREE misdemeanors (trespass, disorderly conduct -- impeding traffic -- and failure to obey a lawful order) and engaging in the harassment just described was designed to send us and anti-war activists everywhere the message that we have NO RIGHT to exercise our First Amendment rights. All eight of us were released on our own recognizance and have a trial date scheduled for June 10 in Towson District Court at which we will vigorously defend our right to express our disagreement with the immoral policies of our government.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:48 pm
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