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BREAKING BAD : Final Episodes
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tommi teardrop



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 2216
Location: Las Vegas
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Read the Lost discussions from this board alone and tell me that Lost is not in the discussion. People were losing their minds over lost. Making theories, discussing mythology of the island. I was looking at fan made maps of the island. Like 20 characters with elaborate backstories.

And now people are acting like breaking bad is some intricate shit. Please. Lost is as involved in a work of art as I've ever been.

No Lost regret. Not now. Not ever.
Post Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:49 pm
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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fact of the matter is, leave Lost out of this, this is about breaking bad.
Post Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:56 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Location: Third Coast
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desert penguin wrote:
I don't think anyone points to the emotional nature of Breaking Bad as it's strong suit. Above all, it was a psychological thriller. We really only were given a chance to feel for two characters, Jesse and Walt, both of whom betrayed us as the protagonist multiple times. Breaking Bad was about surprises and technical writing. Maybe that's why the ending felt a little flat to me, but that's not to say I wasn't sweating out every minute last night. I don't think anything in television has come close to what it did in 62 episodes with regard to unpredictability while staying true to consequence.

Honestly, tommi, you should be laughed out of this topic for bringing up Lost. Seriously, bro? And Mad Men is just a soap opera set as a period piece. Don Draper is AMC's answer for people who don't find Walter White attractive enough to watch on screen for an hour every week.


I disagree on your point that the show only develops Walt and Jesse, emotionally speaking. We see a huge transformation with Skyler, as well as Hank and wifey. The show, of course, focused on Walt and Jesse, but that was only natural. The supporting characters are all developed in their own way, in a fashion that makes sense with what Walt does. The show is about Walter White, and everyone alse is a spoke in the wheel. But without them, what holds the wheel together?

As for the ending, I was completely satisfied. Everything felt right, and to me that was the most important thing. Every single loose end was wrapped up, and in a really plausible way. I believe Walt went to the Nazi hideout to kill them AND Jesse, but decided to save him once he learned he wasn't there voluntarily. Everything just made so much sense. I am convinced that this show will be remembered as one of the top ten dramas of all time.

Oh, and I agree with your assessment of Mad Men.
Post Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:04 am
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: london
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[quote="Neuro"]
also the jesse crafting metaphor that happened and how jesse mastered the art of cooking and made the blue even better than walt did, thus walt being a proud teacher when dying
/quote]

yeah bringing that back was awesome, didn't hit me at first then by the end of the scene i'd remembered him talking about that box in the rehab scene way back.
Post Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:11 am
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: london
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read an interesting theory earlier,

Basically - Walt dies in that car, of cancer, surrounded by cops. What follows is his fantasy, kinda like how we see jesse's fantasy.

There was no remote on the keys when they drop into his lap, does a car that old even have an electric boot? how did he get the ricin into the stevia, how did he get into skylars appartment, he even parked the car perfectly despite the nazi's asking him not too - all a bit perfect maybe? Of course all these things are within Walts technical abilities but I gotta say it was a tad dreamlike - especially the skylar scene, but i think its pretty far fetched, for me he died after killing a bunch of nazi's... I prefer that to dying alone a failure in a cold car... Still, interesting to consider.
Post Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:54 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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The car he drives from New Hampshire to New Mexico is not the same as the one he builds a machine gun into, and thus the keychain is irrelevant. He gets that later with the new car in Albuquerque, one provided by the gun dealer. As for the Stevia, I assumed Walt used a syringe to inject the ricin into the packet. A little far-fetched, it's true, but that seems to be the only thing that makes sense. Walt was able to enter Skylar's apartment through the backdoor, I'm guessing, since the police were very conveniently only watching the front. He may have also used a large vehicle as a cover, since the show took the time to depict how the school bus blocked the stake-out dudes' view of the apartment. He parked the car as he did because Walt simply didn't listen to the ginger Nazi. That one is simple.
Post Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:17 am
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desert penguin



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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So, Norm McDonald has me about 75% in on this Walt dying in New Hampshire/fantasy theory for the final episode. It's at least partly because it creates the ending that I wanted, so maybe someone wants to talk me down?

I think people have already pointed out just how perfectly everything fell into place for Walt throughout the episode (almost like it was a fantasy!) so I'll write some ideas I have gathered through discussion and after watching it a second time.

The first shot is a window frosted with snow. Walt gets in that white Volvo and is freezing, fumbling, and failing. Red and blue flashes behind him as he closes his eyes whispering "Just get me home...I'll do the rest." When he opens his eyes, the police are gone, the keys magically appear, the car starts without a hitch, and Marty Robbins' "El Paso" blares through the speakers. Here is an excerpt from that song's Wikipedia:


Quote:

The narrator switches from the past to the present for the remainder of the song, describing the yearning that drives him to return to El Paso: "It's been so long since I've seen the young maiden / My love is stronger than my fear of death." Upon entering the town, he is attacked and fatally wounded by a posse or his victim's friends. At the end of the song, the cowboy recounts (or hallucinates) that he is found by Feleena, and he dies in her arms.


In the next scene, we are lead to believe Walt just drove a stolen 1978 Volvo 260 that had been sitting in the snow for God knows how long from New Hampshire to New Mexico without a hitch. He also decided to go hit up his cabin before he left to pick up that 9 mill he's been sitting on. No reason to think that would be an issue with the cops searching the area.

Gretchen and Elliot have a rather large picture of Walt in the living room of their new mansion?

The first (or second!) dream sequence that has ever been used in Breaking Bad. Jesse's tortured mind creates a beautiful woodshop for him to work in, when in reality he is hopeless and helpless.

In the next scene, we get a shot through an abandoned shack's window in the desert, gazing in on Walt humming the tune of "El Paso." It's like we're peering through the window into the head of a dying man.

Walt moves through ABQ like a ghost throughout the whole episode, never being spotted by anyone, but he is never more invisible than in his scene with Skyler. It's a fairly natural scene (aside from Skyler allowing Walt to see Holly), but just the way it is shot is very eerie. They are almost exclusively on screen alone during their conversation. When Walt leaves he watches Jr. through a frosty, hazy window.

In the final scene, we get what I think is our biggest clue, aside from the song. Walt lays on top of Jesse on the floor throughout the shootout. The gun fires in a straight line from side to side, about 4-5 feet above ground give or take a couple of inches. Somehow, Walt is hit in the abdomen by one of these bullets? The episode ends and Walt dies as red and blue lights flash in the distance behind him, just as they did when he closed his eyes in the car in New Hampshire.

Reading the lyrics of "El Paso," we find that the narrator is responsible for the death of someone that threatened his love, Feleena. This killing forces the narrator out of town and away from Feleena until his yearning for a reunion becomes too strong. Upon his attempt to return, he is killed by his victim's posse. Walt's Feleena of course is the meth, and Hank died because he threatened her. In this scenario, The New Hampshire police are quite obviously the "posse" who avenge their partners' deaths. After Walt is shot by the police, he dreams this fantasy of dying in the place and with the substance that made him feel most alive.

Here are the lyrics to the song from the point that it is played in the car in New Hampshire:


Quote:

Maybe tomorrow
A bullet may find me.
Tonight nothing's worse than this
Pain in my heart.

And at last here I

Am on the hill overlooking El Paso;
I can see Rosa's cantina below.
My love is strong and it pushes me onward.
Down off the hill to Felina I go.

Off to my right I see five mounted cowboys;
Off to my left ride a dozen or more.
Shouting and shooting I can't let them catch me.
I have to make it to Rosa's back door.

Something is dreadfully wrong for I feel
A deep burning pain in my side.
Though I am trying
To stay in the saddle,
I'm getting weary,
Unable to ride.

But my love for

Felina is strong and I rise where I've fallen,
Though I am weary I can't stop to rest.
I see the white puff of smoke from the rifle.
I feel the bullet go deep in my chest.

From out of nowhere Felina has found me,
Kissing my cheek as she kneels by my side.
Cradled by two loving arms that I'll die for,
One little kiss and Felina, good-bye.
Post Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:49 pm
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desert penguin



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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So, I guess I've never heard of the concept of "ricocheting" ...

Still. I want to believe.

I don't really like the ending without this theory.
Post Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:31 am
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ecapataz



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
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I never thought about the logistics of going back to the cabin to get the money after he started the Volvo, Considering how high profile he is, its hard to imagine he could do it so quickly or at all.

The keys magically appearing isn't really magic though. In severe cold climates in remote areas its common to store keys in the visor like that. An open working vehicle can serve as shelter/escape and Walt did exactly that.

The picture makes sense though since he was a founder after all. That whole little display looked like a shrine to Gray Matter Technologies.

Norm's point about the Stevia is not very strong. Walt is a genius level chemist, putting Ricin in a sealed packet of sweetener isn't exactly a tall task.

The part that doesn't settle well with me is why is the default response to Walt's non-methylamine recipe proposition swift execution? Why not get the recipe then kill him?
Post Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:22 am
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Juan
girls don juan anything to do with me


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If it was a dream it would ruin it for me. That's the default plot line that 5th graders use when writing a story in English class. "it was all a dream!"

and the Jesse sequence where he was making a box is more of a flashback than a dream sequence. And BB has used flashbacks or fastforwards at the beginning of most of it's episodes
Post Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:01 am
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Captiv8



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Juan wrote:
If it was a dream it would ruin it for me. That's the default plot line that 5th graders use when writing a story in English class. "it was all a dream!"

and the Jesse sequence where he was making a box is more of a flashback than a dream sequence. And BB has used flashbacks or fastforwards at the beginning of most of it's episodes


I'm in agreement with you, Juan. It makes the ending some false and disingenuous. It's an interesting theory, but I think it's more of a mental exercise more appropriate to Lost than Breaking Bad. Vince Gilligan and the other writers for the show have been nothing if not consistent and grounded. I can't see them wasting the entire credibility of their narrative on a dream sequence. Also, I watched the final Talking Bad with Gilligan, and nothing he said indicated that Walt died in New Hampshire and the rest was a fantasy. Nothing he said even revealed the slightest shred of that interpretation. Also, remember that the story is not only about Walt; it is also about Jesse, among others. I don't think Gilligan would end the show with Jesse being a meth-making slave. It offers to resolution for his character independent of Walt, and is really just sloppy story-telling.

Stop with the half-cocked theories.
Post Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:40 am
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


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ecapataz wrote:
I never thought about the logistics of going back to the cabin to get the money after he started the Volvo, Considering how high profile he is, its hard to imagine he could do it so quickly or at all.






he was hiding out there before and it was unknown by everyone besides the dude that put him there, its not far fetched at all that he made it there



i dont like this whole dream idea at all though, its reaching way too far for something that isnt needed
Post Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:40 am
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Neuro
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i think maybe they should have excluded the scene of walt putting together the trunk gun device

and it would have been a much bigger surprise for the final showdown and give that umph that i think the naysayers wanted
Post Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:15 pm
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Juan
girls don juan anything to do with me


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yea thats what I was saying above. same with the last shot of Lydia putting that last packet of stevia in. just go to the phone call of her dying later on in the episode.
Post Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:45 am
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DeadAwake



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I recently watched this, and finally could see what the hype was about. Throughout the viewing I noticed a few Easter Eggs/connections. I take it people mostly noticed these but someone else i talked to missed most, so maybe not. Curious to see if anyone else can add any. I noticed a couple more but these are the ones i remembered a revisited quickly after i finished.

***Spoilers Alert***

S 2 Ep 3:
Painting with Rowboat, seen twice in the Hospital.
S5 Ep 8:
Painting with Rowboat, seen in Todd's Uncles house.
~ ~ ~
S 2 Ep 5:
Hank to Walt Jr on killing Tuco "You don't stop to think about killing a cockroach, you just stomp them down"
S 2 Ep 6:
Jesse sees a beetle on the street next to his foot. When Skinny Pete comes he stomps it down immediately.

A blog i read made mention of this, and also connected to it that Jesse kills the "contamination" in the super lab. Also that after they he is part of the pest control business.
~ ~ ~
S 5 Ep 4:
Walt says "The methylamine keeps flowing no matter what, we are not ramping down. We're just getting started. Nothing stops this train, nothing.
S 5 Ep 5:
Walt and crew stop a train to keep the methylamine flowing.
~ ~ ~
S 5 Ep 8:
Walt orders a hit on 8 or 9 prisoners. Hank references this in a coincidental manner. He talks about an old summer job he had where he marked trees (prisoners) with orange spray paint (colour of prisoner jump suits). Then crews would come to cut them down (Hits by Todds uncles people). Specific trees were chosen in a selected grid (the prisons/prison blocks.)

People on youtube also said Walt responds by saying he used to love to go camping, and in the next scene he is in a tent (during the crystal blue persuasion montage).

There are other things, like before Gustavo meets his demise he talks with Walt and Jesse. The right of his face is blacked out i.e. covered in shade.

I'll will at some point watch the whole thing again trying to find as many of these connections as possible.
Post Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:31 pm
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