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Becoming a Freeman - Claiming Sovereignty
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the mean
Certified O.G.


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: philly/sacto/kauai/ohio
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If you want real conspiracy/corruption craziness, bump my GMAC thread.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:27 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Location: Montreal
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You guys are good arguers. That doesn't make you right though. ;) Honestly I can't defend these guys properly as I don't know enough about law, if anyone is interested in this stuff just download a copy of Black Law's dictionary and read for yourself. If I have the time I'll go through it myself and show you guys some of the interesting stuff. Personally I'm not very concerned in convincing people of anything.

Crash, I swear I'm not trolling you. hahaha. I think you have to stop relying on outside sources of information and research things yourself (like I said above). I'm friends with a few socalled "freemans" and they're not racist/anti-semetic in the slightest. One is the most honourable/nicest person I know. One of the them is a lawyer and she has helped me pro bono with legal issues I had with my phone company and helped me win. They know the law much better then I do and no I don't consider myself a "freeman on a land". I like to study what my rights are so I am not taking advantage of by an oppressive authority (who often doesn't even understand the law, which includes most cops and even lawyers and judges!). It is THE ultimate conspiracy, it is one of the most exclusive languages and oldest ruses.

Redball, I see where your loyalty stands as you consider that these people who study and defend themselves in court are leeches to the system (a system which essentially leeches off of the people). Law is all about honour. When dealing with peace officers, judges and even people on the street, honour is extremely important. To spit such vile hatred towards people who are fighting against an oppressive system is real petty. I hope that you learn to find peace within yourself. A real "freeman" believes in personal accountability. It's about being responsible for your mistakes as much as it is about not getting conned. Why should people have to pay $100 a year to renue their driver's license? What purpose does that serve? I think you should pick your battles better as this is something I see no honour in protecting.

Mean, there is a difference between a statue and a law right? Am I completely off here? If so why not make that distinction. Isn't "common law" an older form of law - one that is well meaning to protect the common man/woman? Have you researched the legal definition of "driver"? I think you will be interested in what you find.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:18 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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Here's a good one ...

Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:23 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
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firefly wrote:
Redball, I see where your loyalty stands as you consider that these people who study and defend themselves in court are leeches to the system (a system which essentially leeches off of the people). Law is all about honour. When dealing with peace officers, judges and even people on the street, honour is extremely important. To spit such vile hatred towards people who are fighting against an oppressive system is real petty. I hope that you learn to find peace within yourself. A real "freeman" believes in personal accountability. It's about being responsible for your mistakes as much as it is about not getting conned. Why should people have to pay $100 a year to renue their driver's license? What purpose does that serve? I think you should pick your battles better as this is something I see no honour in protecting.


You see nothing and you pay about as much attention to what I say as a freeman does to the actual laws that govern them.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:12 am
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GrantherBirdly
D&D addict


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 3145
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redball wrote:
firefly wrote:
Redball, I see where your loyalty stands as you consider that these people who study and defend themselves in court are leeches to the system (a system which essentially leeches off of the people). Law is all about honour. When dealing with peace officers, judges and even people on the street, honour is extremely important. To spit such vile hatred towards people who are fighting against an oppressive system is real petty. I hope that you learn to find peace within yourself. A real "freeman" believes in personal accountability. It's about being responsible for your mistakes as much as it is about not getting conned. Why should people have to pay $100 a year to renue their driver's license? What purpose does that serve? I think you should pick your battles better as this is something I see no honour in protecting.


You see nothing and you pay about as much attention to what I say as a freeman does to the actual laws that govern them.


hahaha
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:31 pm
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T-Wrex
p00ny tang


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Mikal kHill wrote:
Ah, damn, looks like someone took the L.


When Mark, Crash and Redball show up in topics like these, it's usually Firefly that takes the L.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:49 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Location: Montreal
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redball wrote:
firefly wrote:
Redball, I see where your loyalty stands as you consider that these people who study and defend themselves in court are leeches to the system (a system which essentially leeches off of the people). Law is all about honour. When dealing with peace officers, judges and even people on the street, honour is extremely important. To spit such vile hatred towards people who are fighting against an oppressive system is real petty. I hope that you learn to find peace within yourself. A real "freeman" believes in personal accountability. It's about being responsible for your mistakes as much as it is about not getting conned. Why should people have to pay $100 a year to renue their driver's license? What purpose does that serve? I think you should pick your battles better as this is something I see no honour in protecting.


You see nothing and you pay about as much attention to what I say as a freeman does to the actual laws that govern them.


I see things pretty clearly. You did about 15 minutes of "research" and came to your ignorant conclusion. I could say the same thing about you when it comes to paying attention.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:11 pm
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the mean
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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firefly wrote:
Mean, there is a difference between a statue and a law right? Am I completely off here? If so why not make that distinction.

"Law" is derived from numerous sources. In terms of most criminal laws in the US, they come from state statutes.

firefly wrote:
Isn't "common law" an older form of law - one that is well meaning to protect the common man/woman?

No, you are using the wrong definition for "common." It has nothing to do with the "common man." When filing a complaint, you can bring statutory claims, or common law claims. For consumer law, I will file for violations of the Consumer Sales Practices Act (a statutory claim) and for fraud, intentional infliction of emotional distress, etc. (common law claims.) "Common law" comes from case law, not from a statute or code. That's it.

firefly wrote:
Have you researched the legal definition of "driver"? I think you will be interested in what you find.

Probably not. Enough with the Black's Law Dictionary stuff as well. That's just a dictionary written by some law professors. It not some ancient rune.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:19 pm
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b. dolan
FBI agent


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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This is a good AND a bad thread.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:40 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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I didn't mean that "common law" meant "common man", that was just a bad choice of words. What I meant was that it is a fundamental law - that it supersedes other statutes. Would that be the right way to put it?
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:41 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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b. dolan wrote:
This is a good AND a bad thread.


It's also like, the 5th iteration of this thread since I've been here. Another will pop up in March/April at tax season.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:47 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Location: Third Coast
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The whole idea behind this seems terribly flawed. From what I can gather people are declaring themselves sovereign from their legal identity, right? Is that the gist of it? Are they saying that their corporeal entity is sovereign from everything else? This is an infinite loop of absurdity.

If we look at Rousseau, for example, the state can only derive power from popular sovereignty, which is to say the will and consent of the people. This is the social contract. The key to its continuing function, however, is reciprocity, i.e. the individual concedes to the rule of the state in exchange for state protection in terms of rights, and so forth. Assuming that individual sovereignty had any credence, this would still not absolve you from actions committed in any given state. The concept is almost entirely ideological and has very little grounds to exist in jurisprudence. In other words, the individual right to autonomy is only retained insofar as the individual does nothing to violate the rights of another individual OR the laws of the state.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:18 pm
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1568
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firefly wrote:

Why should people have to pay $100 a year to renue their driver's license? What purpose does that serve? I think you should pick your battles better as this is something I see no honour in protecting.



I think it's really funny that you spent a bunch of time talking about how they use this to fight an oppressive system and what not, and then when it came time to give an example of that you chose this. Is a driver's license renewal fee really one of your biggest worries? If so, maybe you need to reevaluate your whole system of picking battles.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:47 pm
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the mean
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firefly wrote:
I didn't mean that "common law" meant "common man", that was just a bad choice of words. What I meant was that it is a fundamental law - that it supersedes other statutes. Would that be the right way to put it?

No, it's the other way around. The common law is the courts interpreting things that aren't spelled out in a statute. Basically fills the holes, because you can't possibly write a law that covers EVERYTHING. If the legislature drafts a statute, it supersedes any previous body of common law on that topic.
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:18 pm
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mlanifesto



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 354
Location: UK>Head Like a Fucking Orange County>San Francisco
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Firefly, why post videos from the UK?
The whole movement appears to have started in the US, and you keep pushing a US legal dictionary.


The mental health system in the UK has been on the decline since the time of Thatcher.
In the old days, people who talk like they have just landed on the planet would have been taken into care if they thought courtrooms were a boat/corporation.

Sadly now these people are ending up in contempt of court instead of in care.

For example:

9 Months on contempt charges
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2011/B15.html

After 10 days inside they get a real lawyer, apologize and the sentence is suspended.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2011/2376.html

Or this old codger
"Lord Justice Pitchford said Scarth suffered from a delusional disorder, could be loud and argumentative, and was a conspiracy theorist.
He said it was perfectly clear that the continued incarceration of Scarth, who has always refused medication, was having a "deleterious effect" on his mental health.
"He is an unusual individual in that the nature of his personality disorder means that he is not one of those who is likely to see the error of his ways and, to use technical language, purge his contempt."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14854070

This last one kind of wins me over a little, its only tangentially related.
The DVLA is like the DMV
"After entering a not guilty plea, he threw down his unconventional challenge. Humphreys, from Bury St Edmunds, said: "I was willing to fight a champion put up by the DVLA, but it would have been a fight to the death."
"Magistrates sitting at Bury St Edmunds on Friday had disagreed and instead of accepting his offer to take on a clerk from Swansea with "samurai swords, Ghurka knives or heavy hammers", fined him 200 with 100 costs."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1416262/Court-refuses-trial-by-combat.html


Last edited by mlanifesto on Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:56 pm
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