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GrantherBirdly
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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Tea Party Debate  Reply with quote  

Anyone else watch this tonight? It struck terror deep into my heart. Here's one characteristic clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irx_QXsJiao
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:25 pm
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Dr Sagacious



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1843
Location: Redford
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I think what's the saddest part is that this is not surprising. Then you hear the schmuck in the crowd yell "YEAH!" after Wolf Blitzer's question.

And then Ron Paul, "Well... nooo... erm."

Classy. Rick Perry and Michelle Hitler 2012.
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:35 pm
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GrantherBirdly
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And this is the same group of politicians alleging Obama wants to kill our grandparents. These motherfuckers are stating outright that they would deny terminally ill individuals healthcare!
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:38 pm
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Dr Sagacious



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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You're right. The same people who cried about the prospect of "death panels" are the same fuckers who would let someone die if they didn't have insurance, because they are worried that they are going to have to pay for it. Gee, that's not very Christ-like at all!

Shit, man. I wonder if the Tea Party really knows where any of their tax money goes, especially under a GOP-ran government.
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:14 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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At least tea party/liberatrians are honest about that shit, and will say honestly that kid fucked up, now he's gotta die--such is the impermenence of life.

It's better than the republican position which is "well uh...um...that's not quite what I meant...uh"--republicans take platforms with no recognition of the awful consequences. Tea Party people no the horror they are stepping into, and are fine with the trade.

Can someone explain to me the difference between Anarchists and Libertarians by the way?
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:28 am
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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Every time I start paying any real attention to the Tea Party I get the impression that I am dealing with a group of people who had never heard of the term "moral hazard" before 2009 and have subsequently become totally enamored with the concept.

The way Ron Paul could have responded to that question is by explaining that Wolf Blitzer's hypothetical 30-year-old is a person whose poor decisions have left him in need of an act of charity, that as a society we should not automatically begrudge the man that charity, but that the coercive foundation of government disqualifies it (or should disqualify it) as a mechanism for meaningful charity.

None of this is to say "let him die" -- rather that the decision to save him should be made freely by the individuals faced with the opportunity, instead of by taxpayers and politicians who may not shoulder any of that burden personally.

Ron Paul's core viewpoint as I understand it is that government should exist to enforce the rule of law (including property rights) and shouldn't do very much else. This isn't actually what most participants in the Tea Party want in practice--most of them seem to very much dig coercive politics as long as they're marketed properly--but they've been trained to cheer for it anyway. I believe it's a reaction to the moral hazard of the situation rather than a reasoned opinion about how to deal with it.
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:46 am
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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futuristxen wrote:


Can someone explain to me the difference between Anarchists and Libertarians by the way?


Depends on one's reading, but generally libertarians are pro-capitalist, while anarchists are anti-capitalist. Although there are variations of libertarian communism that is quite contrary to american libertarianism. There have also been claims to "anarcho-capitalism" though most anarchist political theory refuses such a proposition since capitalism, by definition, is hierchal and authouritarian.
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:02 am
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
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Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:03 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Rick Perry is threatening to burn Ron Paul's house to the ground, and murder all of his grandkids as some sort of Jesus cult ritual.

Who is scarier incidentally--Rick Perry or Michelle Bachman? Bachman seems just like an idiot who hurts people just through her idiotic brain functions. Rick Perry has something dark lurking in his soul. An urgent need for death camps. I feel like if he walked past me on the street, my soul would shudder slightly.
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:58 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Mark in Minnesota wrote:
This isn't actually what most participants in the Tea Party want in practice--most of them seem to very much dig coercive politics as long as they're marketed properly--but they've been trained to cheer for it anyway.


And I think there is a divide in the tea party between the ditto heads who are just riding a wave, and those who are actually ideologically libertarian and are in lock step with Ron Paul.

I just hope Ron Paul can keep getting into debates, because he's much smarter than everyone else at those debates, so it's fascinating to see conservativism run up against it's logical conclusion and have to lean left.

It's like every time Mitt Romney or Rick Perry have to debate Ron Paul it makes them look a little more ridiculous.

And then the fact that Ron Paul is not leading the primaries and is generelly bein scoffed at by the republican media outlets--sort of undercuts any legitimacy Republicans ever claimed as Card Carrying Tea Party folk.

It must be weird for Ron Paul to debate people like Bachman and Perry who are claiming credentials in a movement he started, while standing by almost none of the actual ideology. I don't know how he doesn't just start swinging on people.
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:05 am
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GrantherBirdly
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Here was a segment where my respect for Ron Paul - diminished by his shitty outlook on helping dying people - was partially restored due to the courage he has in speaking unpalatable truths to the Republican base. The question is at the beginning and Ron Paul's response starts at around 2:30, the exchange between Rick Santorum and others after his initial point is made is worth watching as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfcvzhGu0WA
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:49 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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I think we've known for a while now that the answer to the questions "Am I my brother's keeper?" is "Not if it costs me money, and probably not even if it's free."

And ya, I don't generally agree with Ron Paul's politics but at least he's intelligent and not just a whirling mouthpiece.
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:53 am
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outpatient



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
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that's what I want to see happen to those shitbags in the audience. either that or an army of ron artest clones who have the crowd mistaken for pistons fans
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:54 am
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3flip



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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Dr Sagacious wrote:
I think what's the saddest part is that this is not surprising. Then you hear the schmuck in the crowd yell "YEAH!" after Wolf Blitzer's question.

And then Ron Paul, "Well... nooo... erm."




The video was edited to make Ron look as if he had no response. He actually went on to explain his view pretty clearly. Like it or not, please at least watch his entire response. The remainder of his explanation begins around the 5 minute mark.

http://youtu.be/z6n51UEt1F4
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:02 am
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3flip



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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Captiv8 wrote:
I think we've known for a while now that the answer to the questions "Am I my brother's keeper?" is "Not if it costs me money, and probably not even if it's free."

And ya, I don't generally agree with Ron Paul's politics but at least he's intelligent and not just a whirling mouthpiece.


The libertarian point of view does not need to be one of an unsympathetic nature. Maybe the libertarian has enough faith in society to believe that we will help each other voluntarily instead of coercively.
Post Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:05 am
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