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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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"both sides":

side 1:
-RT, a fox-like propaganda machine funded by the russian govt. notoriously anti-NATO.
-Libyan state TV.

side 2:
-nearly every other media outlet in the world
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:27 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: airstrip one
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I think we've successfully reached the future, paging redball to confirm.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:03 am
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Woland



Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 156
Location: Finland
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firefly wrote:
I also think it's foolish to believe that they invaded for any reason other then money and power. If that makes me the conspiracy guy then so be it. I don't buy the stabalization argument.

Who invaded Libya?

You can't invade a country without ground forces. NATO didn't invade Libya.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:57 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Location: Montreal
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So instead of addressing any of my questions you're just going to nitpick about the exact number of people protesting. You can't bribr that many people yet you believe that they were because it fits into your paradigm.

The important questions are, are the Libyan people better off with the CIA sponsored rebels and what are the real reasons behind the NATO mission.

Just because you're "independent" media says its for the people you choose to believe it even though it contradicts everything we know about our imperialists leaders. Do you ever question what al jezera, etc says?

By the way, are you getting involved in politics? I ask because I'm curious what your background is.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:12 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Location: Montreal
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Woland wrote:
firefly wrote:
I also think it's foolish to believe that they invaded for any reason other then money and power. If that makes me the conspiracy guy then so be it. I don't buy the stabalization argument.

Who invaded Libya?

You can't invade a country without ground forces. NATO didn't invade Libya.


Considering that the "rebels" were sponsored by the CIA and knowing the CIA's history of manipulating the politics of other countries I consider this an invasion. None of this appears organic to me.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:16 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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jakethesnake wrote:


I think we've successfully reached the future, paging redball to confirm.


You ain't seen nothin' yet.

El psy congroo.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:58 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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firefly wrote:
So instead of addressing any of my questions you're just going to nitpick about the exact number of people protesting. You can't bribr that many people yet you believe that they were because it fits into your paradigm.

The important questions are, are the Libyan people better off with the CIA sponsored rebels and what are the real reasons behind the NATO mission.

Just because you're "independent" media says its for the people you choose to believe it even though it contradicts everything we know about our imperialists leaders. Do you ever question what al jezera, etc says?

By the way, are you getting involved in politics? I ask because I'm curious what your background is.

i work for the senate but in a nonpartisan logistical/administrative position. in other words, i don't do anything involving policy.

my interest the middle east is purely recreational at the moment. i'm taking arabic classes and thinking of going back to school for my masters in global affairs, so we'll see.

you're the one who claimed there were millions as evidence of his support. the numbers matter. if gaddafi did bring out millions it would indicate that he has substantial support from the people, at least in tripoli and the surrounding area. you're right, you can't dole out that many bribes. if however he brought out a few thousand (which looks to be a more accurate number) it wouldn't say much about his level of support. all dictators operate patronage networks to maintain their regime. all of them can call on a certain level of support from those who benefit from the largess, especially in a petro-state like libya.

mubarak was able to call out large numbers of people to demonstrate on his behalf before the regime fell. what does that say about his legitimacy?



it's pointless to delve into the sources discussion again. i can provide hundreds but you'd ignore them and post libyan state tv or something from RT.

suffice to say, i certainly take AJ's reporting with a grain of salt, since it sometimes operates as an arm of qatari foreign policy.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:16 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Thanks for answering my questions about your background. You're definitely well read on middle east politics and despite what you may think I have an open mind about this conflict and I respect your opinion.

I just don't trust our leaders intentions and I don't trust the corporate media (wether they're from here or the middle east). Maybe gadhafi DID shoot at actual protesters and NATO used it as an opportunity to step in and throw a coup. I think we will all know the truth soon enough. If the resources become privatized and the socialist laws are lost then we will know that this was about money and not freedom
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:50 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8537
Location: Third Coast
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Woland wrote:
firefly wrote:
I also think it's foolish to believe that they invaded for any reason other then money and power. If that makes me the conspiracy guy then so be it. I don't buy the stabalization argument.

Who invaded Libya?

You can't invade a country without ground forces. NATO didn't invade Libya.


In terms of history, Italy wrests a measure of control over Libya from the Ottomans in the early 1900s. A teacher of the Koran, Umar Mukhtar rebelled successfully for a time, but ultimately the Italian forces proved too much. Libya isn't even known as Libya until the Italians decide on it. After Italy is defeated as an Axis power in 1941 the Brits took over until independence in 1951.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:06 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1821
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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Woland wrote:
firefly wrote:
I also think it's foolish to believe that they invaded for any reason other then money and power. If that makes me the conspiracy guy then so be it. I don't buy the stabalization argument.


Who invaded Libya?

You can't invade a country without ground forces. NATO didn't invade Libya.


Oh fo sho..

It's like if you were in your house & i was across the street throwing molotov's at it. I'm technically not burning your house down. The molotov is. And i personally didnt invade your space bro, but look at your house now. Shit is all burnt & fucked up. Your cat ran away too.

If you really think that you cant have an invasion without ground troops then you will be no use to us in the coming alien wars.

And we're gonna need all the help we can get.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:07 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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So, NATO removed the no-fly zone over Libya. Someone explain what this means, please? Apparently the rebels did not want it removed yet, but they did anyway? This does not compute in my head.

And the UN Security Council voted to end Libya operations. From the firefly/uberconspiracytheorist/illuminati perspective this is the time when private corps move in and we follow the money trail, right?
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:07 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
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$
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:15 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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I think this is more when something like Naomi Klein's shock doctrine applies, and some semblance of neocolonialism continues.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:16 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
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Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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Countries without a central banking system;

Cuba, Syria, Iran, The Bad Korea, Panama, Sudan & a few other guys we don't like.

Countries new to the central banking system;

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya

Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:31 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: airstrip one
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Unless I'm missing something, according to wiki at least, the Central bank of Libya was created 60 years ago. This paper trail seems stale. Lead me to the fresh one.
Post Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:26 pm
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