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Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
The Debt Ceiling...  Reply with quote  

Anyone else following this story today? Boehner "walked out" of the negotiations with Obama on a debt ceiling plan. What a depressing way to end a week of a possible bipartisan deal to resolve this issue...
Post Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:13 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8530
Location: Third Coast
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That's job dedication for you. It's easy to give up on stuff when you know you get an absurd lifetime pension no matter what. No personal debt ceiling for Congress.
Post Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:09 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling. Gov't spending IS out of control. So I guess I agree with republicans on this one.

Maybe if we ended on of the three wars we are waging, we wouldn't need to raise the debt ceiling. Or maybe if we stopped giving bailouts to evil fuck banks...

We're already screwed for the next ten years anyways so far as I can tell. We're going to be a lost generation like the Japanese had. I know too many people my age who have had to move in with their parents. That's my leading economic indicator.
Post Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:54 pm
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corporateslave



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Lawrence, KS
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futuristxen wrote:
I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling. Gov't spending IS out of control. So I guess I agree with republicans on this one.

Maybe if we ended on of the three wars we are waging, we wouldn't need to raise the debt ceiling. Or maybe if we stopped giving bailouts to evil fuck banks...

We're already screwed for the next ten years anyways so far as I can tell. We're going to be a lost generation like the Japanese had. I know too many people my age who have had to move in with their parents. That's my leading economic indicator.


I don't think they have any choice but to raise it for now and take serious measures to fix the problem over the coming years. Do you really think they can to anything that will curb spending enough to avoid hitting the debt ceiling in two weeks? At the pace that the federal government can move at, I say no fucking way.

They have to raise it for the time being, and make moves to shrink the national debt that would include both tax increases and cutting services. It's a deep tangled hole that we've crawled into, and it's going to take some drastic measures to right the ship over the next ten years or so.
Post Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:35 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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Taxes need to go up. Republicans suck. Sometimes, truth rhymes.
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:14 am
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1379
Location: Rochester, NY
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But not very well.
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:25 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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corporateslave wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling. Gov't spending IS out of control. So I guess I agree with republicans on this one.

Maybe if we ended on of the three wars we are waging, we wouldn't need to raise the debt ceiling. Or maybe if we stopped giving bailouts to evil fuck banks...

We're already screwed for the next ten years anyways so far as I can tell. We're going to be a lost generation like the Japanese had. I know too many people my age who have had to move in with their parents. That's my leading economic indicator.


I don't think they have any choice but to raise it for now and take serious measures to fix the problem over the coming years. Do you really think they can to anything that will curb spending enough to avoid hitting the debt ceiling in two weeks? At the pace that the federal government can move at, I say no fucking way.

They have to raise it for the time being, and make moves to shrink the national debt that would include both tax increases and cutting services. It's a deep tangled hole that we've crawled into, and it's going to take some drastic measures to right the ship over the next ten years or so.


At least if they didn't raise the debt ceiling they would be forced to actually address a problem rather than just passing the buck on it. I honestly believe if they do raise the debt ceiling--taxes won't go up on the rich, we'll still be in three wars, and our banking system will still be "too big to fail".

We have deep systemic problems that have been left festering for about 30 years or more on some of these things, and neither side really seems to have the ideas or ability to get things on these issues done.

Maybe I'm just bitter because whenever I want to raise the debt ceiling on my credit card, by bank laughs at me.

A bank that wouldn't even be in existence right now if it weren't for the US government bailing them out.
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:06 am
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mindtoast



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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Location: australia
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the other thing I keep hearing they're talking about is a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. I think such a thing, if passed, could possibly mean america could barely ever afford to invade anywhere or go to war if attacked.

Last edited by mindtoast on Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:06 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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Oh you can be sure defense spending won't be affected at all by something like that. There will be some sort of loophole you can drive jets through.

Funny thing was, when we went to afghanistan all those years ago, the mission was ostensibly to find and catch Bin Laden.

Well we did that. Mission a-fucking complished. So why are we still over there?
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:10 am
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the mean
Certified O.G.


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: philly/sacto/kauai/ohio
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futuristxen wrote:
I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling. Gov't spending IS out of control. So I guess I agree with republicans on this one.

So you don't think taxes should be raised at all for the rich? Because that is what the holdup is.
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:49 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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the mean wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling. Gov't spending IS out of control. So I guess I agree with republicans on this one.

So you don't think taxes should be raised at all for the rich? Because that is what the holdup is.


No I definitely think the rich should be taxed. Over half their income should come back.

But Democrats obviously lack the spine to do that, so raising the debt ceiling just continues spending without any kind of meaningful cutbacks, and more social welfare for the wealthy.

Hell, even just closing tax loopholes and enforcing the current taxes would be a huge boost.
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:05 am
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Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
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futuristxen wrote:
the mean wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling. Gov't spending IS out of control. So I guess I agree with republicans on this one.

So you don't think taxes should be raised at all for the rich? Because that is what the holdup is.


No I definitely think the rich should be taxed. Over half their income should come back.

But Democrats obviously lack the spine to do that, so raising the debt ceiling just continues spending without any kind of meaningful cutbacks, and more social welfare for the wealthy.

Hell, even just closing tax loopholes and enforcing the current taxes would be a huge boost.


Wouldn't it be the Republicans who lack the spine?

Also, to add the topic of taxes:

NYT wrote:

Historically, the term “tax rate” has meant the average or effective tax rate — that is, taxes as a share of income. The broadest measure of the tax rate is total federal revenues divided by the gross domestic product.

By this measure, federal taxes are at their lowest level in more than 60 years. The Congressional Budget Officeestimated that federal taxes would consume just 14.8 percent of G.D.P. this year. The last year in which revenues were lower was 1950, according to the Office of Management and Budget.

The postwar annual average is about 18.5 percent of G.D.P. Revenues averaged 18.2 percent of G.D.P. during Ronald Reagan‘s administration; the lowest percentage during that administration was 17.3 percent of G.D.P. in 1984.

In short, by the broadest measure of the tax rate, the current level is unusually low and has been for some time. Revenues were 14.9 percent of G.D.P. in both 2009 and 2010.


from: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/are-taxes-in-the-u-s-high-or-low/
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:11 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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Asterax wrote:

Wouldn't it be the Republicans who lack the spine?



I dunno, Dems had the majority and the chance to end the bush tax cuts, but allowed republicans to bully them off it.

It's funny Republicans don't even call the rich the rich anymore, they're "job creators".

I prefer my term for them, "reptilian fuckfaces"
Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:27 am
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Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
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I thought the president gave a good speech tonight. Whether it will be enough to sway public opinion with so little time left to pass legislation? Doubtful.

This is a really frustrating situation to watch, especially in the House of Representatives. I can't say much else, but we'll see...
Post Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:40 pm
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dangermc



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 93
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Asterax wrote:
I thought the president gave a good speech tonight. Whether it will be enough to sway public opinion with so little time left to pass legislation? Doubtful.

This is a really frustrating situation to watch, especially in the House of Representatives. I can't say much else, but we'll see...


Boehner boehned his in comparison. Obama did a better job explaining his side of the story, whether or not it was the best plan of action.

Boehner should have tried to intelligently describe why they think their plan is better, he came off as being petty. I thought the way he brought up things that happened in January made it seem like the republicans are upset about what has already happened and because of that they are not going to compromise with this.
Post Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:51 pm
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