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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 2437
Location: Son Quest
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theodora wrote:
TSA has definitely been over-the-top for a while now. My boyfriend is diabetic and wears a pump. He is detained nearly every time we go to the airport, which is normal. We usually plan ahead for this, but we flew from Denver to Minneapolis this summer and they were absolutely ridiculous about it. They detained him in the cube for a few minutes. They did the full body scan/pat down and then ran some of his articles of clothing through their little machine. Something on the bottom of his flip flop made the machine go off, so they proceeded to unpack ALL of his carry-on and run each item through the machine. We missed our flight because they closed the gate fifteen minutes before the flight (it sucked to stand there and watch our plane leave the gate).

On the way back, he decided not to tell them about his pump unless they noticed it. He walked through security with no problems. We haven't told TSA about the insulin pump since (even though you're required to do so) because it's such a hassle.

Fuck sacrificing freedom for safety.


Screeners hate to get alarms. There's a whole tiered series of steps to avoid having to go to the more time intensive processes and in my experience they want to avoid those almost as much as you do. It's extra work and people being pissed off at you.

The question is- do you want them to have a protocol? Or do you want these cats who make 25,000 a year at a crappy, unnappreciated job to have more autonomy?


What is this freedom you speak of? Freedom to travel across the entire continental US in under 6 hours?
Not to pick on ya, cause I'm not really directing it at you necessarily, but I'm reminded of that Louis CK routine.

Post Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:12 pm
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WrathChild



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 953
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:
You guys know that the radiation from the scanner is roughly equivalent to the rads you pick up in about 2 minutes of actually sitting in the airplane during a flight....


Actually, it's 90 minutes not 2, and the only person to make this claim is the manufacturer.

Also, in regards to your second post, it has nothing to do with flying. The freedom to fly is not constitutionally guaranteed nor should it be. However, there are provisions to prevent the government from engaging in these sort of invasive searches and that's the problem. TSA is a government agency. The argument that "if you don't like it don't fly" is total bullshit. Slippery slopes and what not.
Post Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:30 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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Location: Son Quest
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breakfast wrote:
Raoul DeGroot wrote:
You guys know that the radiation from the scanner is roughly equivalent to the rads you pick up in about 2 minutes of actually sitting in the airplane during a flight....


Actually, the issue is that no one knows that, because it has yet to be adequately studied - there IS, however, some concern that the concentration and distribution of X rays people are receiving may be too intense, and capable of increasing mutation rate in skin, blood, and germline cells. Of course, the assertion that it's unsafe is currently speculative, but unfortunately, so is any belief in the absolute safety of this thing.


The distribution argument seems the most plausible, but what's your measure of when the studies becomes adequate? You're a scientist. Tell us the signs of compelling evidence. And the red flags for scanty ev.
Post Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:31 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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WrathChild wrote:
Raoul DeGroot wrote:
You guys know that the radiation from the scanner is roughly equivalent to the rads you pick up in about 2 minutes of actually sitting in the airplane during a flight....


Actually, it's 90 minutes not 2, and the only person to make this claim is the manufacturer.

Also, in regards to your second post, it has nothing to do with flying. The freedom to fly is not constitutionally guaranteed nor should it be. However, there are provisions to prevent the government from engaging in these sort of invasive searches and that's the problem. TSA is a government agency. The argument that "if you don't like it don't fly" is total bullshit. Slippery slopes and what not.


The manufacturer makes that claim. Some others make similar estimates. The 90 min figure might be referring to sea level background radiation, not the cosmic rays you get in flight.

Here's the thing. Terrorist hijacking is a tiny threat that I'd bet is most effectively stopped in the preparation phases. Airline security is not worth the money put in for the almost inherently sketchy results. But the public unfortunately demands it because of shitty, availability heuristics, decision making. The money would probably be better spent in countrywide nutritional training, to be completely rational about it...

What is the alternative? When the TSA is constantly getting reamed for spending too much and letting all types of contraband slip by, what do you expect them to do but get more hardcore on that ass?
Post Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:40 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Why don't you have to go through this kind of thing when you want to get on a bus or train or subway?

We fear the airplane too much.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:37 am
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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Busses and trains aren't gigantic missiles
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:56 am
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Bicycle



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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Buses, trains and subways are filled with poor people and minorities. Its expected that you may be stabbed to death or mugged when you enter into one. Planes are safe and comfortable white people places and should therefore provide a nice sense of security to their passengers

Im under the impression that killing someone is as easy as snapping a neck back further then it should go. No amount of body scanners can change that. Id rather people not touch me though
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:59 am
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TurnpikeGates



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 517
Location: Bay Area
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:


Here's the thing. Terrorist hijacking is a tiny threat that I'd bet is most effectively stopped in the preparation phases. Airline security is not worth the money put in for the almost inherently sketchy results. But the public unfortunately demands it because of shitty, availability heuristics, decision making. The money would probably be better spent in countrywide nutritional training, to be completely rational about it...

What is the alternative? When the TSA is constantly getting reamed for spending too much and letting all types of contraband slip by, what do you expect them to do but get more hardcore on that ass?


I thought you were off the ship until this post. You're right, but hopefully this uproar will alter the discourse on transportation security, or security period. The fact that this is a natural development of a security bureaucracy in a paranoid state doesn't mean we should be all about it. Wouldn't it be nice to have a national conversation about what actually causes safety? So far, the TSA doesn't really have to defend the efficacy of their invasive measures, they just have to repeat the threat line. It's good for them to get it from both sides: "Why the fuck did that dude get through?" AND "How does you touching my balls make this airplane safer?" It's not hypocrisy on the part of the American public. We need the honest answer: "Forever we will be able to mostly stop dumb terrorists and mostly not stop smart terrorists." Then we can concentrate on ceasing to manufacture terrorists.


Last edited by TurnpikeGates on Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:15 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:
Busses and trains aren't gigantic missiles


The new security measures are supposed to be to keep planes from being blown up, not hijacked. Subway bombs would be a much more effective and worrisome attack I would think.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:15 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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futuristxen wrote:
Raoul DeGroot wrote:
Busses and trains aren't gigantic missiles


The new security measures are supposed to be to keep planes from being blown up, not hijacked. Subway bombs would be a much more effective and worrisome attack I would think.


You obviously haven't seen the trailers for Unstoppable or even heard of Speed.

http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3068790297/
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:35 am
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jehu



Joined: 25 Aug 2002
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:
Busses and trains aren't gigantic missiles


apparently you haven't seen Speed & Unstoppable.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:39 am
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Raoul DeGroot



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That's just ridiculous.

Now rogue cruise ships on the other hand.... That's what you gotta look out for.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:42 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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jehu wrote:
Raoul DeGroot wrote:
Busses and trains aren't gigantic missiles


apparently you haven't seen Speed & Unstoppable.


Great minds, brother.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:46 am
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MP3D
Straaaange FAMOUS!


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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another shitty detail. the scanners are designed only to detect heavy matter objects (think knife, gun, etc...) NOT small powders that "terrorists" use to make bombs.... these scanners do nothing that standard metal detectors cant do. its a privacy issue. its a control issue.get in line or else!

i have opted out everytime i see them and the TSA agents talk to me like im such an jerk for doing so.

http://www.optoutday.com/
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:57 am
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the mean
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Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:21 pm
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