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Lest we forget ...war is a racket
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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breakfast wrote:
I'm not offended, but I think it's a misguided and egotistical gesture. I don't genuinely feel that firefly is posting this article as a reminder that wars are waged for unjust purposes. To me, this looks like another attempt to point out that he really hates "the system", including state-endorsed holidays that could be misconstrued or coopted as celebrations of war. And he rightly feels, maybe, that any remembrance today glosses over or ignores the myriad and often unethical reasons behind these wars. Fair enough. But that kind of statement still looks more self-satisfied than genuine, at least to me.


I find it upsetting that you - and I'm sure others on this forum - feel that I'm some egotistical instigator who is just trying to stir shit up. It's true that I don't post much about happy things or discuss art/life enough. Politics and propaganda is usually what I feel compelled to post about and I almost only post when I disagree with something or feel that I have something to add. I could see how it makes me come accross as an instigator to some.

Please trust me that I'm posting this in with good intentions and not as some "dick move".
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:01 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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firefly wrote:
mortalthoughts wrote:
How about thanking your friends an neighbors for doing what we don't want to. Yes war profiteering is real. We know that already. Seems very antagonizing to post this today out of all days .


So because it has been declared "remembrance day" or "veteran's day" or what have you, you are not allowed to be speak critically of war? We should all just sit in a circle eating yellow ribbon cookies and listen to propaganda. Sorry, I think this writing should be shared ESPECIALLY on this day to help counteract the pro-war propaganda.

I do however make an effort to share in the moment of silence at 11:11 AM on remembrance day and I donate to the veterans hospitals but I won't wear a poppy and I won't keep my mouth shut.


just for one day bite your tongue man please? you are not bringing anything new to the table are you?
arent you preaching to the choir here anyways?
we get it and agree with it war is wrong never will be right
gotcha

shake a vets hand today tell him thankyou
they'll appreciate it a lot more then reading this article about something they already know all to well

and no smart ass i dont have a ribbon on my car
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:04 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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What do I have to thank them for?
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:07 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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i apologise firefly i took the wrong tone from the start

this just hits close to home
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:10 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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firefly wrote:
What do I have to thank them for?


would Canada or the usa be where we are at today without war?
would we even have the chance to say what we say without wars being won?
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:11 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Location: Montreal
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I'm sorry if it made you feel that way. I really wasn't trying to offend people.

I read your thread about your Grandpa. I'm really sorry to hear about that. I lost my Grandpa to the same disease and now my Grandma has it too.

Truce?
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:14 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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mortalthoughts wrote:
firefly wrote:
What do I have to thank them for?


would Canada or the usa be where we are at today without war?
would we even have the chance to say what we say without wars being won?


See that is my point. I don't believe that was the purpose or the result of the "great wars". I suppose that is why we don't see eye to eye on this subect.

From General Smedley D. Butler


Quote:

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:17 pm
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IAmNiki



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: North Smithfield, RI
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Maybe i'm bias because I can count 4 people off the top of my head that are veterans in the army and also part of my family, but fuck man, really?
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:42 pm
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b. dolan
FBI agent


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/news/story.aspx?id=539483

The beloved "fat cat" is stirring up emotions on a day designated to honor those who fought for their country.

Each day, a new “Garfield” comic can be found on calendars, newspapers, and the Garfield website, in an intention to add a smile to the day.

But today’s strip has caused controversy, appearing inappropriate for Veteran’s Day.

The comic depicts a spider, about to be killed by the main character, Garfield. The spider states, “If you squish me, I shall become famous. They will hold an annual day of remembrance in my honor, you fat slob [referring to Garfield].” It then shows the spider in front of a group of spiders stating, “Does anyone here know why we celebrate ‘National Stupid Day?’”

When visiting www.garfield.com, an apology from author Jim Davis immediately appears. Davis explains “in what appears to be the worst timing ever, the strip that runs in today’s paper seems to be making a statement about Veteran’s Day. It absolutely, positively has nothing to do with this important day of remembrance.” The author continues to explain the strip had been written over a year ago, and the date in which it would appear was chosen at random.
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:49 pm
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See Arrrgh



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 251
Location: New England
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firefly wrote:

From General Smedley D. Butler


Quote:

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?



This is why we thank veterans. For doing all of the things General Smedley D. Butler just laid out and you quoted for whatever emphasis. Veterans' Day is not about the millionaires that have used these wars and the wars of the past to make more money for themselves. Veterans' Day is about being thankful that there are people who are willing to die for their country, for whatever ideals they believe in, while you sit at home typing nonsense on your computer.

I agree with Breakfast. You completely missed the point with this thread. It's tasteless because you're a) not informing anyone of anything new on a day dedicated to veterans, not politicians, and b) it misses the point that wars are fought for a number of reasons, but the people who die in these wars do so with the idea that they're protecting/defending the rights that make Canada and USA different from China or North Korea. If you can't understand that, I don't really know what to say. How about instead of posting this on a fairly like-minded message board, take this article and go to your local VA Hospital (or the equivalent in Canada) and preach this and see how many veterans react positively to it.

I'm not offended by this article. Wars make rich people richer. That's not new information. I'm offended by the fact you're not smart enough to see why this was a tasteless choice of an article to post up specifically because it's Veterans' Day. You got everyone's attention while bringing nothing relevant to the table. Congratulations.
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:56 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: airstrip one
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As I said before I agree with the sentiment in the OP. I don't think you would find many people here who disagree.

See Arrrgh reminds me of me sometimes. A little overbearing but passionate when explaining himself on the interweb. I agree with him, though. As my 9th grade math teacher would call an improper method for a proof:

"Tacky"
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:13 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 2437
Location: Son Quest
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Firefly is the Rodney Dangerfield of the forum now and everybody likes to shit on him because he's so out of it, but geez chill out!

Veterans day adds an implicit legitimizing effect to help our wars be considered as just things. I know some people try to ignore that when it comes to veterans, because it's not cool to pick on the dude who swallowed the lie and got their leg blown off because they believed in something (or were too lazy to think things through), but yknow, it's really ok if some flagrant people ruffle feathers by saying that the veterans that we supposedly value so much are dying stupidly for stupid reasons. It's really not so completely common an idea despite what your jaded ideas of political awareness may lead you to believe.

How many fireflies are there anyway? There's not a ton. Somebody needs to pee in the soup periodically. I personally believe that we really do need a certain segment of the population to be socially retarded, annoying hardcases. I think they have a place in the balance of things.

I'm not 100% on board with the sacrifice of veterans being looked at as if it were something to be proud about.
Militaries aren't all bad, and some violence happens to be "just" (is that the word though? "Appropriate" maybe?)
But you can have good intentions, courage, compassion out the yango, and what is that to anyone? I don't really care what people think they're doing. I care what they did.
I do find the situation 100% sad. I think it's a real shame that we have veterans day as some kind of consolation prize in the bullshit awards.

You guys are fake as fuuuck for pretending to be offended about the timing of that post. We're all at the adult table here and can periodically reconfirm hard ideas every now and then. Today seems like a plenty appropriate day actually.

And no I absolutely wouldn't try to say this like that to anyone who was in the military. That's unfair to think that you'd have to.

jakethesnake, I'm not arguing with you, so don't come at me brooo.
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:26 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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I like firefly. I just enjoy harassing him. I just think tomorrow may have been a better day for this post. I think offended is a pretty strong word for the emotion I am feeling.

:|

That still explains it best.
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:37 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 2437
Location: Son Quest
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Yeah, I agree with your emoticon basically.

But on the other hand, there's almost no one here involved enough in the myth of veterans day that this should even be considered tacky.
Tacky is when you are without generosity or empathy to an aggrieved or less privileged party. There's maybe like two people here who were in the military, and they don't seem like the types to appreciate being pandered to, nor do I think of them as being less capable in any way...

To everyone else, all I see it as is a "Hey remember this? Take like five minutes off from playing Fallout and pretend that you actually care about affecting the world somehow. Today is a topical day to think about something and then pretending you're going to engage it in some significant way". That's not so bad.
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:50 pm
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IAmNiki



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: North Smithfield, RI
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:


And no I absolutely wouldn't try to say this like that to anyone who was in the military. That's unfair to think that you'd have to.


So you are willing to call them lazy and/or stupid for being wounded in combat, but you aren't capable of saying that to any of their faces?
Post Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:06 pm
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