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smake



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 682
Location: The Netherlands
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Still sick from it, but here's my take. Neither teams played anywhere up to their potential, Not during this entire world cup, especially not in the final. Though the Dutch team was the better one in the tournament overall I think.

The Netherlands started off one step behind and made some stupid stupid fouls. Both teams were really really nervous and it showed. The Netherlands couldn't get the ball around, and Sneijder, Van Persie and Kuyt were too isolated. Spain tried to get through a couple of times and nearly succeeded.

Second half started of better and we actually started to play some football. Great pass from Sneijder and Robben should have scored. After a couple of attacks, Spain got it's act together a bit and again, lots of fouls. Both sides though, and that's when the referree started to be a bit in favor for Spain. And inconsistent.

Meanwhile, Stekelenburg kept us in the game with some amazing saves. Everyone was working insanely hard and giving their all (ofcourse). In the end, more and more fouls and the ref started to get more and more wrong. Iniesta shoved Van Bommel: though not serious, is a card. Robben kicked the ball away, should have been his second (fair is fair), but more annoying: Heitinga gets two yellow cards for minor, if all, fouls and Puyol gets away with holding back Robben, who would have been free at goal. Should have been his second yellow and red.

The extra half hour was killing. Red card made it even worse. Still seemed we would be able to get to the penalties. With ten men it is crucial the ref sees things correctly and he messed up. Sneijders free kick was so obviously deflected, the entire stadium saw it, but no: he gave a goal kick. Then Elia is blocked, no foul, and then Spain scores in the counter attack. With ten men it is crucial to get what you should have gotten, and this ref just messed up.

To sum it up: horrible final, from both sides. Way too many fouls, especially from The Netherlands, but mostly from both sides again. The referree messed up in the end, should have made it ten against ten and should have given us a corner. It's not why we lost, but still. It's devastating, the entire country wanted the win, now we have lost three finals. Still, amazing performance, for such a small country to reach the final. And we tried to do it in style. Didn't succeed all the time this tournament, but the spirit and resillience was amazing. In the final, Spain might have been a bit better, but it could have gone both ways. This is hard to take. But still proud.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:32 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
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Brynjar wrote:
I may not like the playing style of Spain but that was always a red card.


A pat on a shoulder is a second yellow card? Oh please...

Iniesta decided to take a dive instead of pushing on with the play and trying to beat the goal keeper. Typical.

Anywho, it's over. Also, I agree with Smake.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:18 am
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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11289
Location: ann arbor
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The Dutch played like thugs. They deserved every card they got and that should have been a red when dude kicked Xabi Alonso in the chest.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
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icarus502 wrote:
The Dutch played like thugs. They deserved every card they got and that should have been a red when dude kicked Xabi Alonso in the chest.


Agreed on de Jong's karate kick. Far too reckless.

Regardless, my original post was about Spain's style of play.

You like 15 midfield passes and one dive in the box.

I don't.

Fin.

Despite what you may think, not all of the players on that team are beautiful. Some average looking men. ;)
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:47 am
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the mean
Certified O.G.


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 6497
Location: philly/sacto/kauai/ohio
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Maybe there is a good answer to this question, but I can't think of it:

Is there any reason not to have another one or two officials on the "pitch?" You know, running out there on the field. Like the NBA does. So much is missed / called wrong. It just seems like this would go a long way to making the sport more watchable.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:55 am
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9256
Location: london
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Too many chefs spoil the brew.


Netherlands were lucky to have 11 on at half time, could easily have been down to 9. Going in i was hoping for them to win, by halftime i was screaming spain on.


Any complaints to the ref about freekicks / corners etc from the netherlands is ridiculous, they got the benefit of the doubt wayy too many times in the game
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:07 am
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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11289
Location: ann arbor
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the mean wrote:
Maybe there is a good answer to this question, but I can't think of it:

Is there any reason not to have another one or two officials on the "pitch?" You know, running out there on the field. Like the NBA does. So much is missed / called wrong. It just seems like this would go a long way to making the sport more watchable.


"Tradition." That's it. Otherwise, a call like offsides could be better established by computers than by people. It's a simple calculation — where was the player in question relative to the defenders when the pass was played? — that could be solved with chips in the ball and shoes. A replay official could assess quickly the severity/recklessness of a called foul (not calling fouls themselves but replaying the foul to advise on whether it deserves a card).

BUT... FIFA is concerned that each game have the same rules and it would be hard to implement replay at each of the hundreds of stadia worldwide used for FIFA sanctioned matches. And hiring an additional ref would make things harder (how do you handle a disagreement between the two?) and expensive for what might be an only marginal benefit. Also, you don't want to clog the field. One ref is already in the way enough sometimes.

I think computerizing offsides, out of bounds, and quick replay (off-field) would provide much better help than an additional ref on the field.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:13 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
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the mean wrote:
Maybe there is a good answer to this question, but I can't think of it:

Is there any reason not to have another one or two officials on the "pitch?" You know, running out there on the field. Like the NBA does. So much is missed / called wrong. It just seems like this would go a long way to making the sport more watchable.


I agree completely. It's a much better fit for this sport than replay.

Icarus, your idea is pretty good as well.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:13 am
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Jesse Custer



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1257
Location: London
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The official reason behind the number of officials and part of the reason behind the anti-technology argument is that they believe that the rules of football should be the same at every level. I.e. if they can't afford to have another ref and microchips in the ball in the Rymans League or some shit, then they shouldn't have it anywhere.

Which is slightly less stupid than just 'tradition', but still pretty blinkered.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:20 am
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Sarcastro



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3281
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they should have one ref on each side of the field, that ref would have complete say of what happens on that side. The teams switch at half-time, the refs do not.

Two refs working the entire field with the same amount of power wouldn't work, we'd have even more problems and probably even more cards since they'd both be trying too hard to not to appear weak or lenient in front of the other ref.

computer off-sides aren't bad, since they're apparently so quick and good with that shit. My buddy had a good suggestion, play it like it is right now, but it's a one touch goal on a called off-side allow that to be challenged. Use replays only for those situations and goal line disagreements.

edit: Also just pay two guys to stand behind the net and be goal judges if you don't want replays.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:30 am
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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11289
Location: ann arbor
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Jesse Custer wrote:
The official reason behind the number of officials and part of the reason behind the anti-technology argument is that they believe that the rules of football should be the same at every level. I.e. if they can't afford to have another ref and microchips in the ball in the Rymans League or some shit, then they shouldn't have it anywhere.


Right, I did say that. It's ridiculous, though. It wouldn't change the gameplay as much as how the rules are enforced. I mean, that's the most ridiculously conservative position — it's almost worse than "tradition." "Either we change everything all at once, from the youth leagues to the Caribbean league, or we change nothing." Wouldn't it be easier to start with major cup competitions, then move to the biggest, richest leagues, then to all the other first division leagues, then to the youth leagues, then to the second division leagues, and so on? Meanwhile the technology necessary gets cheaper and cheaper and you have it all done in ten years?
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:42 am
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name



Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
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Alex Massie nalis it. (Almost as if he'd been reading the nonsensical bs in much of this thread):

"Biggest Surprise That Should Not Be A Surprise: People - that is, the British media—complaining that passing the ball is now boring. Better, clearly, to make soccer a game for hoofers because that's, um, exciting. Boring Spain with all their neat and tidy and boring passes! Spain, apparently, are the new Germany. No wonder they won."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/world-cup/76198/alex-massies-best-and-worst
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:09 am
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9256
Location: london
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name wrote:
Alex Massie nalis it. (Almost as if he'd been reading the nonsensical bs in much of this thread):

"Biggest Surprise That Should Not Be A Surprise: People - that is, the British media—complaining that passing the ball is now boring. Better, clearly, to make soccer a game for hoofers because that's, um, exciting. Boring Spain with all their neat and tidy and boring passes! Spain, apparently, are the new Germany. No wonder they won."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/world-cup/76198/alex-massies-best-and-worst


doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, all the british pundits were heavily on spains dick saying its a pleasure to watch them play etc etc


Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:22 am
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name



Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
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actually, i tend to agree with you on that. i didn't find the british commentators, at least, to be anti-spain. to their credit, many british folk have finally admitted that their history of "kick and run" football is nothing to be proud of.

Massie's statement would have been better if he had left it at "people"... or maybe "ignorant people".

mancabbage wrote:
name wrote:
Alex Massie nalis it. (Almost as if he'd been reading the nonsensical bs in much of this thread):

"Biggest Surprise That Should Not Be A Surprise: People - that is, the British media—complaining that passing the ball is now boring. Better, clearly, to make soccer a game for hoofers because that's, um, exciting. Boring Spain with all their neat and tidy and boring passes! Spain, apparently, are the new Germany. No wonder they won."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/world-cup/76198/alex-massies-best-and-worst


doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, all the british pundits were heavily on spains dick saying its a pleasure to watch them play etc etc



Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:31 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
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name wrote:
Alex Massie nalis it. (Almost as if he'd been reading the nonsensical bs in much of this thread):

"Biggest Surprise That Should Not Be A Surprise: People - that is, the British media—complaining that passing the ball is now boring. Better, clearly, to make soccer a game for hoofers because that's, um, exciting. Boring Spain with all their neat and tidy and boring passes! Spain, apparently, are the new Germany. No wonder they won."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/world-cup/76198/alex-massies-best-and-worst


Tournament Hero: Luis Suarez

???

lol @ Holland as tournament villain.

This guy is in lala-land.

When you say "bs" do you mean your blow up over Futuristxen's opinions on football? Passing the ball on a break is one thing, mid-field passing and possession until everyone is blue in the face and the defense breaks down is another. Get over it. Some people (a lot of people) don't like the way Spain plays.
Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:36 am
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