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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19363
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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Reading up on this bill more, they would only ask you to prove your immigration status if you were stopped for some lawful reason. I'm confused, don't they usually ask you for your driver's license in those situations anyways?

It seems like where this is nebulous is that it seems to be overstepping the state bonds in terms of immigration, when constitutionally that's spelled out for the federal government to do.

And then the main bad thing would be that it would discourage police cooperation amongst immigrants.

It's for sure wrongheaded--but it doesn't seem to be the "show me your papers" gustapo thing that the mainstream media has been touting it to be. It's just state enforcement of existing federal laws as far as I can tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_Our_Law_Enforcement_and_Safe_Neighborhoods_Act#cite_note-hb2162_3-20
Post Wed May 05, 2010 10:54 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19363
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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There is a certain amount of irony though in all of the same people who were saying that the health care bill wasn't constitutional, are not touting a bill that is probably even more close to being unconstitional in terms of state's rights.
Post Wed May 05, 2010 10:56 pm
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1544
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Saw this earlier today while driving.
[img]http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=52076260&id=10052226 [/img]

Edit: Fuck, why isn't this working properly?
Post Fri May 07, 2010 4:44 pm
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name



Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
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jan brewer doubles down on her bigoted stance with an anti-ethnic studies law:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/12/arizona.ethnic.studies/index.html?hpt=T1

i really cannot believe this shit.
in writing, the law sounds almost reasonable, but the cnn video crystallizes the debate pretty well. after watching, i am truly sickened by the motive of this bill.
Post Thu May 13, 2010 7:42 am
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ruffiano



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1419
Location: new mexico
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this is pretty sick. im avoiding AZ. not all states require you to prove you're a legal immigrant to get a drivers license (like here in NM), so what am i supposed to be doing? carrying around my birth certificate? apply for a passport to carry around?


Quote:

“That means that anyone who drives in the city of Phoenix and gets pulled over better have a passport or a visa,” Phoenix Vice Mayor Michael Nowakowski said, according to the Republic.
Post Thu May 13, 2010 8:04 am
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Jared Paul



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 3720
Location: www.PrayersForAtheists.org
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ruffiano wrote:
this is pretty sick. im avoiding AZ. not all states require you to prove you're a legal immigrant to get a drivers license (like here in NM), so what am i supposed to be doing? carrying around my birth certificate? apply for a passport to carry around?


Quote:

“That means that anyone who drives in the city of Phoenix and gets pulled over better have a passport or a visa,” Phoenix Vice Mayor Michael Nowakowski said, according to the Republic.




America's innate contradictions and hypocrisies are definitely being dragged out into the light here. Never been a better time fully expose it. PFA's gonna try and make both Arizona shows on our summer tour into anti-ICE/racist legislation/legislator events.

By the time
we get
to
Arizona...

*writing Chuck and John Lewis letters from jail after civil disobedience in Arizona would definitely be a pretty gangster badge to have on my counter culture victory sash, but I really ain't trying to fuck with Arpaio and tent city....
Post Sat May 15, 2010 9:44 pm
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040
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Yeah the hypocrisy is really coming out with so-called constitutionalists going all-out against the fifth amendment on this. These are the same types who want mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients. It's like part of me is asking how much evidence do you need and how much of an argument do we need to build for the other side to see how this is fucked up? I mean you either see that shit is wrong or you don't, but the logic and tactics they are using to ban ethnic studies is just low, low, low.

There is a counter-revolutionary protest on June 5th supporting SB1070, featuring Arpaio, some Hispanic vendidos and hard right wingers. http://www.phoenixrally.com/

The National Socialist Movement (Nazi) has been particularly active lately, manifesting in LA, where they were protected by an LAPD barricade before being run out of town (LAPD aren't so protective of first ammendment rights when its brown folk if you remember the Macarthur Park police riot of 2007). They are planning an upcoming manifestation in Vegas. I'm not sure what to make of that.

These are some interesting times all around - disastrous oil spills, failed wars, bailouts, zenophobia, and some way-confused and frustrated americanz pulled into the right.

The right is relentless and shameless is its invoking of founding fathers mythology. And the racist subconscious of america is really our persistent ugly shadow, which the colorblind theory makes ever-more difficult to acknowledge on any systemic level.

Shit is nuts, but we are in the middle of a global movement, on the right side of history. And the inter-ethnic solidarity between black, brown, and white has been inspiring! The connections between Palestine and Arizona have been made. And whatever historian picks up where Zinn left off is going to have a field day.
Post Sat May 15, 2010 10:49 pm
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remind



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2199
Location: NJ
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Surprised no one has mentioned the great news in the block. I didn't think it would happen this fast, if at all.

And now the appeal from Arizona...
Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:52 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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it's just a preliminary injunction. I mean, it's a big win and the judgment basically says that it thinks the justice department will succeed on striking some of the worst parts of the law, but it's not a done deal yet.
Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:43 pm
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7781
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPqlPxAB19k&playnext=1&videos=DQjlcrTujwI
Post Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:48 am
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Jared Paul



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 3720
Location: www.PrayersForAtheists.org
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Corbet Dean is a personal friend of mine and is actually one of the Phoenix police officers who brought the state to court of SB1070. There are daily updates on his facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=735875426
Post Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:43 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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The bill is a non-issue without its teeth. Appeals court kills the worst portions of the bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/appeals-court-upholds-justice-challenge-on-ariz-law/2011/04/11/AFbyUKLD_story.html?wpisrc=nl_natlalert

last year, earlier in this thread, I wrote:
Beyond that, the way you take down an unconstitutional law quickly is to challenge it in court. There I believe it will fall flat, sending a message to other states that they waste their time imitating AZ. Once that part of the law is gone then it renders the other parts useless. The rest of the law is drawn directly from federal statute. The part about lawsuits will do nothing but cost the AZ government millions and tie up the courts, especially if people decide to exercise their right to sue after the profiling is found to be unconstitutional. Even without that, I think a good defense for any department that wants to stand up against such a suit would be to proclaim the impossibility of following the primary offense law with the racial profiling exemptions it has.
Post Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:50 pm
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Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
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redball wrote:
The bill is a non-issue without its teeth. Appeals court kills the worst portions of the bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/appeals-court-upholds-justice-challenge-on-ariz-law/2011/04/11/AFbyUKLD_story.html?wpisrc=nl_natlalert

last year, earlier in this thread, I wrote:
Beyond that, the way you take down an unconstitutional law quickly is to challenge it in court. There I believe it will fall flat, sending a message to other states that they waste their time imitating AZ. Once that part of the law is gone then it renders the other parts useless. The rest of the law is drawn directly from federal statute. The part about lawsuits will do nothing but cost the AZ government millions and tie up the courts, especially if people decide to exercise their right to sue after the profiling is found to be unconstitutional. Even without that, I think a good defense for any department that wants to stand up against such a suit would be to proclaim the impossibility of following the primary offense law with the racial profiling exemptions it has.



+1
Post Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:21 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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So the SCOTUS today overturned basically all of the law that really matters.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/25/will-supreme-court-rule-on-major-health-care-and-immigration-cases/

Lisa Desjardins wrote:
AZ RULING: Court has overturned sections requiring a) aliens to carry a registration papers...

Court has overturned section of AZ law: b) prohibiting illegal immigrants to seek work, saying fed. law overrides this state law.

Court has overturned section of AZ law: c) allowing police to stop and arrest a person they suspect of being deportable (illegal)

SCOTUS UPHELD requirement that police try to get immigration status of anyone they arrest, but court ruled on procedural grounds


This basically kills all similar laws. A few choice tidbits: Jan Brewer is claiming victory, even though the law was essentially gutted. This quote is awesome and I suggest you use it against morons who argue that undocumented aliens are criminals: "As a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States." -SCOTUS
Post Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:26 am
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2010
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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What's more interesting to me than that the law was mostly overturned is the grounds by which the Court overturned the law: they relied more or less entirely on preemption doctrine, saying that Arizona's law was broken because it conflicted with federal law and that federal law is supposed to be supreme in these sorts of conflicts.

The focus in both the federal government's argument and in the resulting ruling on supremacy and related principles mean that there wasn't much civil rights ground broken. Even the "general rule" quote below is talking specifically about what Congress has enacted into law, rather than talking about what Congress is allowed to enact into law.

The Court basically made it clear that because of the current state of federal immigration law, if anyone can do what Arizona tried to do, it has to be Congress. Even the dissents by Justice Alito and Justice Thomas didn't really question whether or not Congress is the right place for these powers to reside--only Justice Scalia really went there, and he went way beyond that, getting into discussion of the Alien and Sedition Acts and the idea of states as sovereign entities with their own distinct interests and powers to exclude undesirables from their territory.

Scalia was also as overtly political in that dissent as I've yet read him: He commented directly on President Obama's decision to direct immigration enforcement away from some of the people who would be granted amnesty under the DREAM Act. He did that as part of an argument that if Congress is going to under-fund enforcement functions of the federal government, states ought to be able to step in and close the gap--but Scalia went out of his way to criticize parts of that policy decision that didn't really seem pertinent to the case at hand.

So, this is a pretty uncontroversial decision to throw out a pretty controversial law. Likely because the scope of the decision only focused on questions about the supremacy of federal power on immigration issues (rather than on questions like whether or not the "papers please" stuff constitutes an unreasonable search) Roberts was part of the 5-member majority, and Alito was more or less halfway there based on the text of his dissent. But the tone of the ruling is that it's up to Congress to solve the immigration reform issue, with some undercurrent that the executive branch's broad discretion in enforcement priorities is getting to be a serious problem. This is fuel on the fire for the immigration issue that's currently bubbling up in the national election, more than it is a civil rights breakthrough for anyone.
Post Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:59 am
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