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CriticalTheory_Breakfast



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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What I'm saying is, Sarah Palin is the likes of which I'd expect to see only the absolutely ape-shit crazy, extreme right get on board with. She is that fucking ridiculous. But, what puzzles me about her is that, in my life I've met otherwise perfectly reasonable people (they can cut their own food and everything) who support her through and through. And I don't think it is because they are stupid. It is something else.

Maybe I'm wrong and they are all morons. But I've noticed a much thinner line between reasonable "people who voted for McCain" and crazy "Palin supporters." And its weird.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:17 am
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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Location: Rochester, NY
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CriticalTheory_Breakfast wrote:
And I don't think it is because they are stupid. It is something else.



Sarah Palin appeals to people who believe in the myth of America. The idea of small town, "real America." The idea that America was once a shining beacon of liberty and now has fallen, as if we hadn't spent the last hundred years overthrowing sovereign nations. I mean yeah, it's her spunkiness and the fact that she is certainly a Washington outsider, but I think her appeal to American myths is what really attracts people. I don't think her supporters are crazy, I just think they have no knowledge of history and lack critical thinking skills. I would say this about not all but most Palin supporters. I would not say the same about those that supported Bush.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:44 am
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outsect



Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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I heard that she has a huge dick.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:05 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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Charlie Foxtrot wrote:
CriticalTheory_Breakfast wrote:
And I don't think it is because they are stupid. It is something else.



Sarah Palin appeals to people who believe in the myth of America. The idea of small town, "real America." The idea that America was once a shining beacon of liberty and now has fallen, as if we hadn't spent the last hundred years overthrowing sovereign nations. I mean yeah, it's her spunkiness and the fact that she is certainly a Washington outsider, but I think her appeal to American myths is what really attracts people. I don't think her supporters are crazy, I just think they have no knowledge of history and lack critical thinking skills. I would say this about not all but most Palin supporters. I would not say the same about those that supported Bush.

that idea that america used to be a shining beacon and that we've fallen off by straying from our traditional values has a lot of parallels with the reasoning within islamic fundamentalism. i don't think it's as powerful a force but it's still scary stuff.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:44 am
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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Location: Rochester, NY
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crash wrote:
Charlie Foxtrot wrote:
CriticalTheory_Breakfast wrote:
And I don't think it is because they are stupid. It is something else.



Sarah Palin appeals to people who believe in the myth of America. The idea of small town, "real America." The idea that America was once a shining beacon of liberty and now has fallen, as if we hadn't spent the last hundred years overthrowing sovereign nations. I mean yeah, it's her spunkiness and the fact that she is certainly a Washington outsider, but I think her appeal to American myths is what really attracts people. I don't think her supporters are crazy, I just think they have no knowledge of history and lack critical thinking skills. I would say this about not all but most Palin supporters. I would not say the same about those that supported Bush.

that idea that america used to be a shining beacon and that we've fallen off by straying from our traditional values has a lot of parallels with the reasoning within islamic fundamentalism. i don't think it's as powerful a force but it's still scary stuff.


Yeah, and Germany post WWI, KKK post Civil War...Atavism's a scary fuck. Mix it with poverty and you're pretty much guaranteed violence.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:39 am
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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Charlie Foxtrot wrote:
CriticalTheory_Breakfast wrote:
And I don't think it is because they are stupid. It is something else.



Sarah Palin appeals to people who believe in the myth of America. The idea of small town, "real America." The idea that America was once a shining beacon of liberty and now has fallen, as if we hadn't spent the last hundred years overthrowing sovereign nations. I mean yeah, it's her spunkiness and the fact that she is certainly a Washington outsider, but I think her appeal to American myths is what really attracts people. I don't think her supporters are crazy, I just think they have no knowledge of history and lack critical thinking skills. I would say this about not all but most Palin supporters. I would not say the same about those that supported Bush.


I agree with all of this except the last line. Palin is super hypocritical (as are her followers), she games the system while paying lip service to small town ideals. What is most interesting , and perhaps dangerous, about Palin is that she truly believes that she applies home-spun American logic throughout her life and politics, whereas her actions actually make it really clear that she only pays lip service to these ideals.

Palin has internalized the false belief that the actions she takes in her life arise from homespun philosophies, when in fact those philosophies merely allow her to justify (legitimate) the same morally questionable (according to homespun logic) activities and practices that all of our politicians, and most of our citizens, partake in. The difference is she can do so with a false clear conscience, a falseness she seems largely unaware of, a facade which she will lie pathologically to protect, and a facade that she projects to others, who then respond positively to it.

Now, do a deep analysis of the Palin supporters you've encountered. And IMO, they ain't so much stupid. They are much like Palin in the same exact above way - they are conservatives who expect others to live by conservative dogma, fooling themselves all along that they actually live by this dogma, when they clearly do not. They are hypocrites. Palin herself and her supporters tend to be un-self-aware hypocrites, that's what marks them as somewhat unique. Although, I would say Bush supporters clearly suffer from a similar illness.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:13 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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stolen from asterax
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:21 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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anyone that supports that empty vessel of a human being is a fucking idiot no one will ever convince me otherwise
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:23 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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You can scream at the TV all you want about this, but calling them idiots and getting uptight is not going to make any difference. It may even exacerbate the problem in some ways. The fact is, people do not react well to what they perceive as challenges to their way of life. That is the underlying cause of most of the world's conflicts, and getting angry or calling people idiots doesn't help. We have to find a better way to communicate with these people, and part of that is figuring out how to represent our views in a way that they can connect to and not coming off like snotty assholes in doing so. This guy holding the mic in that video is just feeding the flame.

I'm just sick of this outrage porn thing when it comes to Palin supporters. Palin herself can suck a big dick, but the more nose-thumbing that's done towards her supporters, the more entrenched they are in their views. It's not skillful at all, and like I said before, I feel for those people in some ways. They watched the economy change in their lifetimes into something that they aren't adapting to very well, and the fallback they had for their self-esteem, rightly or wrongly, was what they saw as their identity as Americans. All the God and patriotism shit is just a way for people to make sense out of life, and it's natural that progress is going to challenge and scare them. This is a hole that we dug for ourselves in some ways, with snarky Democrats in congress cutting back room deals for forty years and fairly openly expressing their disdain for these people, semi-liberal presidents getting dome in the oval office, and horribly unskillful liberal advocacy groups showing up in three-piece suits and loafers telling them what they can and can't do in their towns. (Most of whose agendas I agree with, but who have been ridiculous in the way they've related to these types.) All politics are personal. That is something that progressives have never fully understood, perhaps until Barack Obama. It's possible that the hole is too deep at this point and there is no way to bridge the gap without compromising in ways that are unacceptable, but getting angry and laughing at the stupidity of people who are probably struggling to keep their homes is not something I'm willing to partake in anymore. You want some Republicans to hate, find the articulate, smart ones who can't blame identity politics for their positions and are more or less blatantly voting on the basis of their wallets.

I'm not excusing them for their views, I'm saying that A) a lot of liberals I've talked to are just as stupid, only a little more articulate about it, and B) the fact is that these people are needed to govern. This is not some small fringe group here, it is probably 1/4 of the population. Either we start looking at some form of true federalism, or we find a way to relate to these people so we can actually get an agenda carried forward that isn't going to be fought tooth and nail every step of the way until there is nothing but a feedback loop of outrage and yelling. It's just getting insane at this point. People have to find some empathy for each other or else the downward spiral is going to get worse.


Last edited by shambhala on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:52 pm
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the mean
Certified O.G.


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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shambhala wrote:
You can scream at the TV all you want about this, but calling them idiots and getting uptight is not going to make any difference. It may even exacerbate the problem in some ways. The fact is, people do not react well to what they perceive as challenges to their way of life.

Wait, these people can hear me through my TV? Fuck, where is my tinfoil hat? Damn teabagging mindmelders.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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No, but they can read your eyes when the conversation comes up. Unless you aren't ever having a conversation with someone who likes Sarah Palin, which is part of my point.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:04 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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i personally enjoy laughing at them from the comfort of my computer but i agree that mocking them to their faces isn't helpful. one of the reasons palin's anti-intellectualism resonates with these people is because they're tired of being mocked by the liberal elite.

we're living in a time where a presidential candidate's ability to speak french is a strike against him. making fun of these people to their faces for being dumb is only going this sort of thing worse.


Last edited by crash on Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:05 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Rather than just not making things worse, it might be helpful to try to make them better, or Obama is going to be a meaningless aberration that we hold onto for the next 40 years.
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:07 pm
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crash



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so how does an individual go about doing that?
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:08 pm
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shambhala



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By doing a whole lot of shit that none of us have the energy or dedication to actually do, which is why the situation seems to be in some ways unsolvable. It's the same thing with people endlessly waxing poetic about economic injustice but never spending five minutes in a low income community. It's entertainment, except on the level that we expect somebody else to fix the problem. That doesn't happen, so what we have left is self-righteousness at best or hate at worst. Farts in a jar. I mean if we're not willing to go and try to engage and get to know each other, what is the point of even giving a shit at all?

I'm not trying to be Mr. self-serious in a thread about this joke of a politician, but the news cycle in this country is insane. It's unhealthy to have this level of acrimony towards people we have to live with. Like I said I'm not addressing anyone specifically in this thread, but our apathy and sourness is a far bigger problem than these people's intelligence. Just my two cents...
Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:14 pm
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