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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 2314
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Captive8, you're going overboard with the defense, and that sarcasm is killing me. I was giving you the real from an OG's perspective, and like I said I missed the discussion, but I'd be glad to check your thoughts on Illmatic for example if you have a link. Whether you like the record or not I'm gonna go ahead and take the whimp call-out back. PEACE
Post Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:36 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Third Coast
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Jesus Frank wrote:
Captive8, you're going overboard with the defense, and that sarcasm is killing me. I was giving you the real from an OG's perspective, and like I said I missed the discussion, but I'd be glad to check your thoughts on Illmatic for example if you have a link. Whether you like the record or not I'm gonna go ahead and take the whimp call-out back. PEACE


Peace it is then. I tried searching for my take on Illmatic, but to sum up I think it's a landmark record, but it doesn't do much for me personally. I stressed personally as well, citing that 1) I wasn't in to hip hop when it came out, and thus kind of missed that boat, which leads to 2) there are other things I would rather listen to, or was listening to once I backtracked to check out Illmatic in 2000. The only track I can listen to over and over again is "NY State of Mind." You just received the cumulative brunt of my frustration on this issue, and the Havoc bit. I apologize for that.
Post Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:45 pm
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Travadone



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 2977
Location: LI(f)E SUCKS (The Album)
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sweden lol
Post Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:33 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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"mobb deep's producer."

yeah. slash literally one of the most influential rapper/producers of the 90s, hands down.

you cannot claim that you know or like hip hop without at least understanding the role mobb deep played in influencing the scene. there are few songs as revolutionary as 'shook ones' in the history of rap music. they are responsible for so many styles and trends its ridiculous. step your game up, now.
Post Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:01 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 2314
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Travadone wrote:
sweden lol

yeah bitch, hilarious
Post Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:09 pm
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box johnson



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 1123
Location: Denver
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Captiv8 wrote:
Jesus Frank wrote:
Captive8, you're going overboard with the defense, and that sarcasm is killing me. I was giving you the real from an OG's perspective, and like I said I missed the discussion, but I'd be glad to check your thoughts on Illmatic for example if you have a link. Whether you like the record or not I'm gonna go ahead and take the whimp call-out back. PEACE


Peace it is then. I tried searching for my take on Illmatic, but to sum up I think it's a landmark record, but it doesn't do much for me personally. I stressed personally as well, citing that 1) I wasn't in to hip hop when it came out, and thus kind of missed that boat, which leads to 2) there are other things I would rather listen to, or was listening to once I backtracked to check out Illmatic in 2000. The only track I can listen to over and over again is "NY State of Mind." You just received the cumulative brunt of my frustration on this issue, and the Havoc bit. I apologize for that.


Fuck em, Illmatic wasn't the record for me, either. Very few things in art are universally agreed on, and if Illmatic has to be then THAT'S why hip hop died. People need to get off of their top 8 bullshit and listen to music again. The past isn't there to aggrandize and what has grown out of it has a diverse fanbase that doesn't owe anything to their past.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:42 am
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the contortionist



Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 707
Location: Brighton, UK
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shambhala wrote:
"mobb deep's producer."

yeah. slash literally one of the most influential rapper/producers of the 90s, hands down.

you cannot claim that you know or like hip hop without at least understanding the role mobb deep played in influencing the scene. there are few songs as revolutionary as 'shook ones' in the history of rap music. they are responsible for so many styles and trends its ridiculous. step your game up, now.


I wouldn't dispute the quality of 'Shook Ones Pt II' but I'm not sure how was it revolutionary. I'm not debating the fact but I always saw it as having a fairly traditional sound - chopped drums, chopped piano loop, lyrics about life on the streets. Same with Illmatic really. Nas's flow was evolved but really it was just a case of being the pinnacle of an existing sound and style rather than changing the game completely. You may of course disagree.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:45 am
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: www.NERDTORIOUS.com
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shambhala wrote:
"mobb deep's producer."

yeah. slash literally one of the most influential rapper/producers of the 90s, hands down.



It's a great song, and a classic for sure. I dont' know how revolutionary or game changing it was though.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:06 pm
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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11289
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Box Johnson is correct to say that few things in art are universally agreed upon, but some things are beyond agreement/disagreement, they are the very infrastructure of what it means to like or to be. People who don't "like" Illmatic are like high school kids who hate Moby Dick or people who don't "get" abstract expressionism or "understand" Dylan. Fine, you don't enjoy these works, and that's your prerogative; there's no injunction to enjoy. But if you don't understand why they are important to the very notion of what's good about the music, then you're missing a huge epistemological piece of the aesthetic world as you know it.

And, for the record, Captiv8, to get back to the topic, you don't know it. That much is clear and I can say that without being accused of righteously accused of elitism. It's a "Letter to P"! You know something's happening here but you don't know what it is.

And that's fine, too. People are born everyday with no knowledge of Paid In Full, and I won't blame them for it until they grow up and start pontificating about hip hop on message boards.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:25 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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DM wrote:
shambhala wrote:
"mobb deep's producer."

yeah. slash literally one of the most influential rapper/producers of the 90s, hands down.



It's a great song, and a classic for sure. I dont' know how revolutionary or game changing it was though.


Are you fucking kidding me? That song invented grimy, aggressive, mean-spirited, dark rap.

Crime-oriented rap has been around forever, but Shook Ones changed the complexion of what it meant to rap about violence. G Rap, Schoolly D, Eazy E, Ice T....yes people were doing it before Shook Ones, but the music itself was upbeat and sonically not much different than non-crime rap. Maybe you could say that The Chronic really broke that ground first, but even there it's more funk, synthy, dance tracks. Shook Ones was grimy...you don't dance to that song, you don't get hype, you sit down, nod your head and think about people you don't like. it's the epitome of dark and morose. That shit literally shot off a whole sound; 50 Cent wouldn't exist if it wasn't for that song.

There is nothing on Illmatic even remotely close to the vibe of that song. Illmatic is Nas sitting in the project window and looking down at what Prodigy is doing in an alley and talking about how crazy the situation is. That song is some totally unashamedly "666" shit.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:34 pm
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: www.NERDTORIOUS.com
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Jesus Frank wrote:
Captive8, you're going overboard with the defense, and that sarcasm is killing me. I was giving you the real from an OG's perspective, and like I said I missed the discussion, but I'd be glad to check your thoughts on Illmatic for example if you have a link. Whether you like the record or not I'm gonna go ahead and take the whimp call-out back. PEACE


I'd be defensive too. You should go back and read some shit wrote-- all because dude said he wasn't really feeling Illmatic?

I agree with the sentiment some you brought, but the approach was wack as fuck.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:38 pm
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: www.NERDTORIOUS.com
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shambhala wrote:
DM wrote:
shambhala wrote:
"mobb deep's producer."

yeah. slash literally one of the most influential rapper/producers of the 90s, hands down.



It's a great song, and a classic for sure. I dont' know how revolutionary or game changing it was though.


Are you fucking kidding me? That song invented grimy, aggressive, mean-spirited, dark rap.

Crime-oriented rap has been around forever, but Shook Ones changed the complexion of what it meant to rap about violence. G Rap, Schoolly D, Eazy E, Ice T....yes people were doing it before Shook Ones, but the music itself was upbeat and sonically not much different than non-crime rap. Maybe you could say that The Chronic really broke that ground first, but even there it's more funk, synthy, dance tracks. Shook Ones was grimy...you don't dance to that song, you don't get hype, you sit down, nod your head and think about people you don't like. it's the epitome of dark and morose. That shit literally shot off a whole sound; 50 Cent wouldn't exist if it wasn't for that song.

There is nothing on Illmatic even remotely close to the vibe of that song. Illmatic is Nas sitting in the project window and looking down at what Prodigy is doing in an alley and talking about how crazy the situation is. That song is some totally unashamedly "666" shit.


That song didn't invent grimey, or aggressinve, or mean-spirited, or dark rap. It was a continuation of a sound that was already devloped.

You're all over the place here. There all sorts of dark, slow, grimey tracks (though maybe not as celebrated) that came before Shook Ones. It was a whole NY sound for a while, and it's one of the best, but you're giving Shook Ones way too much credit. And bringing up the Chronic as a comparison makes everything even way more off base.

And 50 Cent wouldn't exist if there weren't clubs, Interscope, or Eminem-- not Shook Ones.
Post Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:48 pm
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box johnson



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 1123
Location: Denver
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icarus502 wrote:
Box Johnson is correct to say that few things in art are universally agreed upon, but some things are beyond agreement/disagreement, they are the very infrastructure of what it means to like or to be. People who don't "like" Illmatic are like high school kids who hate Moby Dick or people who don't "get" abstract expressionism or "understand" Dylan. Fine, you don't enjoy these works, and that's your prerogative; there's no injunction to enjoy. But if you don't understand why they are important to the very notion of what's good about the music, then you're missing a huge epistemological piece of the aesthetic world as you know it.

And, for the record, Captiv8, to get back to the topic, you don't know it. That much is clear and I can say that without being accused of righteously accused of elitism. It's a "Letter to P"! You know something's happening here but you don't know what it is.

And that's fine, too. People are born everyday with no knowledge of Paid In Full, and I won't blame them for it until they grow up and start pontificating about hip hop on message boards.
I love that I dig Dylan (his songbook is a must-read), can get down on some Melville, but still fail to understand why Illmatic is anything but anecdotal. If I don't have the right tourist map for hip-hop, let me know which one I need. I take direction well.

I grew up listening to different artists than you (an assumption I'll safely ride) and have different tastes based on that. You have different seminal artists than I do, and none of mine start with N and end with as. If that's your personal history, big ups. Listen, I don't even wanna fight with you man. I'll leave you right where you tan.

As our man said, the times... they are a changin'.
Post Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:30 am
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: www.NERDTORIOUS.com
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..
Post Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:42 am
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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DM wrote:
shambhala wrote:
DM wrote:
shambhala wrote:
"mobb deep's producer."

yeah. slash literally one of the most influential rapper/producers of the 90s, hands down.



It's a great song, and a classic for sure. I dont' know how revolutionary or game changing it was though.


Are you fucking kidding me? That song invented grimy, aggressive, mean-spirited, dark rap.

Crime-oriented rap has been around forever, but Shook Ones changed the complexion of what it meant to rap about violence. G Rap, Schoolly D, Eazy E, Ice T....yes people were doing it before Shook Ones, but the music itself was upbeat and sonically not much different than non-crime rap. Maybe you could say that The Chronic really broke that ground first, but even there it's more funk, synthy, dance tracks. Shook Ones was grimy...you don't dance to that song, you don't get hype, you sit down, nod your head and think about people you don't like. it's the epitome of dark and morose. That shit literally shot off a whole sound; 50 Cent wouldn't exist if it wasn't for that song.

There is nothing on Illmatic even remotely close to the vibe of that song. Illmatic is Nas sitting in the project window and looking down at what Prodigy is doing in an alley and talking about how crazy the situation is. That song is some totally unashamedly "666" shit.


That song didn't invent grimey, or aggressinve, or mean-spirited, or dark rap. It was a continuation of a sound that was already devloped.

You're all over the place here. There all sorts of dark, slow, grimey tracks (though maybe not as celebrated) that came before Shook Ones. It was a whole NY sound for a while, and it's one of the best, but you're giving Shook Ones way too much credit. And bringing up the Chronic as a comparison makes everything even way more off base.

And 50 Cent wouldn't exist if there weren't clubs, Interscope, or Eminem-- not Shook Ones.


Ya well dude, if you're going to ante up into the conversation, why don't you offer something other than "just believe me because I say so." Plz explain one song that had even close to the vibe and, more importantly, sound of that song and that was as popular as that track was.

For the record, I bought the Infamous the week it dropped. I was around for this and saw what that record did to people. It made people mean and crazy. That's true shit. I actually saw people's demeanor change after listening to the Infamous.
Post Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:15 am
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