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The whole Healthcare Reform thing...
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: london
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Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:50 pm
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McTools



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 181
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I'm pro universal health care, but I heard him say that he's going to pull 500 billion from medicare to build this system. If this is right, that's no good! Why can't we stop sending troops over seas and start pulling money from the invasion budget? Why are we taking it from medicare and not medicaid? Not that, that would make any more sense to me... I've been a proponent of universal health care for years, but I just don't trust this guy yet, he sent more troops over seas, he kept giving those damn bail outs, he thinks that the patriot act and the military and commissions act are all fine and dandy, and he's invoked the same acts of privacy that Bush had during his run. These are all things that the previous president that we call a monster did, so I think that even with some thing as great a U.H.C., I'm going to be sceptical up to last minute. We pay more than enough taxes to pull this off without taking it away from medicare, or any other federal health service, I just don't see the compassion in it. And here's probably the part where I catch shit because I don't think Obama is unfoulable?
Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm
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sick_transit



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 502
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Of course you heard that 500 billion was being cut from Medicare, but i bet it wasn't from a reliable source. Link?

That's bs, dude.
Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:12 pm
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McTools



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 181
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I saw a news clip of him saying it on 2 days ago, I think it was on the daily show. Some where in episodes 111 through 115, take a look for it if you want, that's too much time for me to sift through for this. I hope it's BS, do you know where he's getting the money to build this system? That's the only thing I've heard...
Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:59 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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He's cutting out this program in medicare that lets you buy it through a private insurer, because it's basically defrauding taxpayers and it's a waste of money. That's what he's cutting out of medicare.

Additionally he's taxing insurance companies on their more expensive insurance plans.

And I think he's also getting money by not renewing the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans.

Basically if you're rich, Obama is going to take your money.

And since I'm not rich, I say do that shit Obama.

Call it a bill for fucking up our country with their greedy ass scams.
Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:27 pm
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xxdr. mad69xx



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Salt Lake City
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Found this on sole's twitter

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Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:27 pm
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sick_transit



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 502
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Major props to that guy. He actually knew what he believed in, all those sheep make America keep looking worse.
Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:15 pm
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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xxdr. mad69xx wrote:
Found this on sole's twitter

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That was great. I really hate people though...
Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:32 pm
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The Count



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1558
Location: Chapel Hill
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While I found that video very funny and LoLed several times. I must say that I hate videos like that.

Can anyone honestly say that this is somehow better than the video that came out last year interviewing the obama supporters who didn't know his platform?
Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:05 pm
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pedavis



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1425
Location: Illinois, US
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The Count wrote:
While I found that video very funny and LoLed several times. I must say that I hate videos like that.

Can anyone honestly say that this is somehow better than the video that came out last year interviewing the obama supporters who didn't know his platform?


looks like someone made it passed the security features installed in this thread. quit that!
Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:28 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 1995
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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futuristxen wrote:
And I think he's also getting money by not renewing the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans.

Basically if you're rich, Obama is going to take your money.


My understanding is that expiration of the Bush tax cuts will affect anyone who had capital gains tax, and anyone who had income beyond the bottom two tax rates, or, in 2008 dollars, any single person or married individual who made more than $32,550; any married couple who made more more than $65,100; any head of household who made more than $43,650.

My income most years is probably somewhere in the top third of middle class tax rates for an individual, and I only have modest holdings that could be sold for a capital gain. Expiration of the Bush tax cuts will probably cost me personally a minimum $30000 over the next five years.

Unless I've grossly misunderstood what people mean when they say "letting the Bush tax cuts expire" it's misinformation to say that this will only affect the rich. It would be more accurate to say that it would directly raise taxes on everyone except those living less than $20000/year above the poverty line.

That said, the CBO estimates about what will happen if we extend them are pretty chilling -- between that, the other tax cuts, and indexing the proposal to index the AMT against inflation priced out by the estimate, I count more than 6 trillion dollars in additional deficit and debt service by the end of 2019. I don't think that we can find 6 trillion dollars of spending cuts in our ten year budgets unless we start including coupons for discounted cat food in Social Security mail-outs, so I support the expiration of those tax cuts in spite of knowing what it will cost me. I'm just saying that I understand it to be misinformation to say those tax-cuts only benefit the rich.
Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:49 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Mark in Minnesota wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
And I think he's also getting money by not renewing the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans.

Basically if you're rich, Obama is going to take your money.


My understanding is that expiration of the Bush tax cuts will affect anyone who had capital gains tax, and anyone who had income beyond the bottom two tax rates, or, in 2008 dollars, any single person or married individual who made more than $32,550; any married couple who made more more than $65,100; any head of household who made more than $43,650.



Most americans do not pay capital gains tax anyway, so it's a bit of a red herring. Most americans that have stock dividends have those going into tax-free corporate retirement funds, and aren't taxed on that until they take the money, when it's taxed as income.

The bulk of the money that the government gets from capital gains is for people making over 200,000.

I don't know why you have so much money in capital gains taxes(but maybe it's not a lot of money to you?), but I don't think the current flat tax on capital gains is at all fair.

The bush tax cuts, in particular these capital gains taxes you sight, disproportionate favored the rich.

I believe the idea is to let the tax cuts expire on the top chunk of the bracket in terms of income tax, while giving tax cuts to the middle and lower tax brackets(which he's already done with the Recovery Act, which gave 500 or 1000 tax credits).

Also, according to wiki about 40 percent of Americans make less than 25k. And the median income for women over 25 is 26k.

The other chunk of america makes less than 50k. If you're making above even that number, you should be paying higher taxes anyways, and you just made out like a bandit under Bush.
Post Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:22 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Also, if you're making so much on capital gains taxable revenue that you're going to be taxed 6k a year on it at 20 percent...my math is shit, but does that mean you're pulling in around 300,000 on just capital gains alone? That can't be right.

Someone who knows algebra come let me know.
Post Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:27 am
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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Yeah, I don't know where I got $30000 from last night. I think I must have moved a decimal point or made some other mistake when punching numbers into a calculator on one of the things I expect to happen in the five years after those tax cuts expire. $15K-$20K of new tax burden is probably more accurate.

One thing I should mention is that I did my math operating under the assumption that I would take a two percent income tax increase on all but the first $30K or so of my income (every tax bracket above 15%, or about $30K/year) got a 2% reduction from the Bush tax cuts). If that income tax increase doesn't happen, and only the capital gains reductions are allowed to expire, my added tax burden could easily stay in only four digits (or at worst the very low fives), and I will be, as you put it, making out like a bandit.

(edit: snipped some stuff that doesn't need to be here)

But, yeah. I agree with your opinions on capital gains taxes, and I even agree with your opinion that I should be paying more income tax than I do. I've even written my legislators (or responded to their surveys) and told them so on more than one occasion. All I'm saying is that when Obama has said that he's only going to raise taxes on people making more than $250K/year, I don't think that's the same piece of tax policy as letting all the Bush tax cuts expire -- and those tax cuts (especially the non capital gains ones) did provide tax relief to the middle class.
Post Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:57 am
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