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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11289
Location: ann arbor
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redball wrote:
icarus502 wrote:
redball wrote:
No one who texts or uses a cell phone while driving should be critical here.



Texting or talking on the cell phone is not worse than drunk driving.


Except the studies that show that it impairs you as much or more.


The studies are still inchoate and, at any rate, as the news gets out, and if it's that conclusive, decent people will stop using the phone while driving. Some (like myself) already do, or they especially limit it. But the word has been out on drinking and driving for a hundred years, especially for the past thirty or so. You can't drive drunk w/o being also a shithead. Not the same with using the phone.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:41 pm
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remind



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2196
Location: NJ
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jstile wrote:
I have no respect for people who drink drive. I have done it once, and am very ashamed. Nothing happened, but it was one of the stupidest things I have ever done and I will never repeat it.

Anyone who thinks they are 'capable' of drink driving is an absolute fucking moron. If anything happened to you, or worse, to someone else, how exactly are you going to feel about the fact that your intoxication was responsible for that event? As redball said, driving is something that requires an incredible amount of concentration. And people who drink drive on the regular are arrogant enough to assume that they are better drivers than everyone else out there and that their impairment isn't really a big deal. Well guess what, it is a fucking big deal. I have lost friends through the actions of drink drivers. This thread is in incredibly poor taste and your disclaimer at the beginning makes it no better. smh


I'm sorry you've lost friends due to drunk drivers and that my post was offensive. Truly. It's easy to forget about things like this when you've never been on either end or have someone close to you be on either end. Of course, I would feel beyond awful if someone got hurt (or worse) because of my drunk driving. I wasn't drinking and driving out of arrogance though...it was out of apathy. I was drinking and driving on the regular because I was drinking on the regular. I didn't care about myself or anything else at the time. And I never thought of my impairment as no big deal, despite the light-heartedness of my post. I was hoping to hear of other people's close calls in similar situations with this post but I realize I should have taken a different approach.

cakes wrote:
and thinking it's "unavoidable" is foolish. unless gun points (or any other life threatening points) are involved, you always have a choice.


Yes. I didn't mean that it was actually unavoidable. I said it was unavoidable in my mind at the time. Just relaying how I would think when I was drunk..."well, I guess I have to drive now". Yeah, I know...

ms. icarus wrote:
Sounds like you do condone it. Which makes you a moron.
My dad went to jail for having a number of DUIs (and an outstanding child support case) and he complained about how the "real" criminals (ie drug users and dealers) got off easy and the "good guys" (ie DUIs and deadbeat dads) were getting a bad rap. Seems to me it's the drunk drivers and deadbeats who are really hurting people. Why risk killing someone or going to jail? If you can't afford a cab, or find a designated driver, how hard is it to not get drunk?


I don't condone it. I don't do it anymore. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've done it this year...which is still bad, yes, but considering how often I used to do it, I'm just glad it's not at that point anymore. And I would never tell someone that it's ok to drink and drive. You're right, though. Taking that risk (as often as I have, especially) is one of the dumbest things I've ever done.

Frezz wrote:
remind wrote:
I hope I'm not being too insensitive to those who had something truly tragic happen to them or someone they know.



But I'll just go ahead and do it anyway!...


Yeah...I feel like shit. Again, my apologies.

********************

I didn't mean to offend the rest of you either. I really don't think it's a cool thing to do. I don't brag about it to my friends. I've been incredibly fortunate that nothing has ever happened. And as much of a fail as my original post was, the responses from you guys is exactly what I needed to nip it in the bud completely. So, in that respect, I'm glad I posted it.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:47 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
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I think you already knew public opinion. You knew you'd get this response. Let it be constructive and stop. If you don't drive drunk anymore and you realize how bad it is then you're cease to be, as Icarus put it, a shithead.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:52 pm
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TurnpikeGates



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 517
Location: Bay Area
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redball wrote:
No one who texts or uses a cell phone while driving should be critical here.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q2/texting_while_driving_how_dangerous_is_it_-feature


What if I only text at red lights? Then can I be critical?

I drive on one or two beers fairly often, but I'm rethinking it. I know that keeps me well within the legal limit, and I don't feel the least bit impaired, but it's also stupid to add any mitigating factors to an already dangerous task.

I've always been hardline about drunk driving, but I think people have different definitions of drunk. I have never and will never drive when I am obviously over the legal limit, or when I feel any subjective intoxication. Usually 1 beer (or 2 spread out over an hour or more) doesn't make me feel any different except maybe in temperature, and the state considers it ok, so that's how I've justified it to myself. Might be bullshit.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:54 pm
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jstile



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
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Location: London
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If this thread does make you stop completely then, although in poor taste, it has reached a positive outcome.

Talking on the phone or texting while driving is illegal over here, and rightly so in my book.

What constitutes drink driving? I would say that any more than 3 units of alcohol in your system and you are impaired. That's around the drink drive limit here, and I would say it's fair.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:00 pm
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TurnpikeGates



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 517
Location: Bay Area
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jstile wrote:
If this thread does make you stop completely then, although in poor taste, it has reached a positive outcome.

Talking on the phone or texting while driving is illegal over here, and rightly so in my book.

What constitutes drink driving? I would say that any more than 3 units of alcohol in your system and you are impaired. That's around the drink drive limit here, and I would say it's fair.


Units meaning 12 oz of beer, 6 of wine, 1 shot, etc.?

You'd have passed the limit before 3 in the U.S., unless you're a huge person.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:03 pm
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jstile



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
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Location: London
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Yeh that sounds about right.

Well, a quick Wikipedia check says that your legal limit is the same as ours, which is 0.08%, or 80mg/g. For an average-sized man, that translates to roughly 4 units. Although there are obviously other possible mitigating factors.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:07 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
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TurnpikeGates wrote:
What if I only text at red lights? Then can I be critical?


You're not really driving when you're stopped. Only when you go again. I'd say that you should consider your actions a bit, though. You are still on a road with other drivers and -- though it's not entirely necessary -- it's a good idea to stay alert even when stopped at a light. You may be able to pull over and avoid a vehicle that is going too fast to stop. Plus, a traffic engineer might tell you that the time spent waiting at a light is lost time, and any delay in your return to normal speed is also lost time and serves to slow down the traffic behind you. That's poor manners, but it's not really dangerous. In short: Go ahead and cast stones.

Those units are a crappy way to measure shit. If anything, you have to use that as a base measurement then adjust down. Everyone's body metabolizes differently, and what you've eaten can have a big impact on your intoxication.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:45 pm
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tommi teardrop



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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Location: Las Vegas
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But redball, we all like to text and texting is not bad like drinking and it just doesn't feel right to make people feel bad for doing something that we do ourselves.

Seriously though, texting while driving is stupid as shit. We don't need a fuckin study to tell us that. But I do it. And worse, I do it with a sober mind. As does nearly everyone else.

As far as drinking goes, I stop at 4 to 5 beers, depending on how long I've been drinking. But I'm a big boy. If I am okay to drive, then I drive.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with a thread like that. We do stupid shit that endangers others' lives. Sometimes that doesn't even involve alcohol. We can talk about it. It is not glorifying it. Just talking.

If I start an unprotected sex thread, I don't think we we should be shamed from telling stories due to the fact that we have all known someone with AIDS. It's just some shit to talk about.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:49 pm
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vintge
is vintge vince? vince vintge vincge?


Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 4334
Location: LA
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are there ever stories of a drunk driver being struck and killed by a shitty sober driver?

i bet you there are 0 because the drunk guy is automatically at fault.

not that im for drunk driving but that doesn't make sense.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:50 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
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I think the accident numbers for drunk drivers are terribly skewed by the way the law is enforced, vintge. I didn't mention that until now because I think that it's a bit of a different conversation.... err.. at the very least I think it should be a different conversation because the danger of interpreting shitty statistics as an argument that driving drunk isn't as bad as it's purported to be. It really is that bad, and I think the laws we have about it are just about right. I don't think they should get any stricter.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:57 pm
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adic



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 727
Location: SJC
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What Tommie said basically sums up how I see it as well...

Also, some people are just bad drivers to begin with. This girl I work with has been in 4-5 accidents in the last year, all while sober. I could probably still drive better after a few beers then the majority of people on the road. If I'm driving after I've been drinking I'm actually more worried about some dumbass hitting me then I am about hitting anyone else.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:06 pm
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AdamBomb



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 3183
Location: Louisiana
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I've got a small story...well, sorta.

I used to work as a merchant mariner (as an engineer). Our ship had a short stop at a port in North Carolina on our way back to New Orleans. So when I finished up the days work, there were only a couple of hours of shore time I could enjoy because the ship was going to be leaving. I took a cab to a restaurant/pub, and met up with one of my shipmates who had called. This dude (Lavelle) was a little older than me, and he was a straight up thug. He worked on the ship as a DEU (Deck/Engine Utility) probably 9 months out of the year and worked a lot harder than any of the other DEU's. He was from the 9th Ward in New Orleans, rocked gold teeth and cornrows. You wouldn't believe some of the stories he had to tell about shit he had gone through...he was definitely battle-hardened.

Anyway, I grabbed a few beers, and he introduced me to this local dude he made friends with - a white guy with stubble around our ages (mid twenties). This guy was cool as hell, he bought beers for Lavelle and I and treated us as if we were long lost friends. He seemed about as normal as you could get. We were having such a good time (it felt good to be ashore after weeks!) and suddenly I glanced down at my watch. We only had 10 minutes to get back to the ship! For those that don't know - you can never be late to catch your ship. I tell Lavelle, and we are in panic mode because this is kind of a small town and we would have to call to get a cab. We are definitely going to be late. The local dude says, "Hey guys, don't worry - I got my truck. I'll drop you right off at the port, I know right where it is." Lavelle and I are relieved as we have just enough time to make it. Hell yeah.

We walk to his truck and to get in on the side, I open the door and a bunch of beer cans just come spilling out onto the parking lot. Lavelle and I look at each other in amusement. Still sweating our potential impending doom of lateness, we say nothing and just get in (Lavelle up front, I'm in the back). The local dude peels out from the parking spot...and with his wobbly driving it starts to dawn on Lavelle and I this dude was waaaay more drunk that we thought he was. You would have never known at the bar. We are going at a pretty good speed and he is bouncing on either side of the lane. During the drive he starts telling us how he was in the military and just got out of Leavenworth a couple weeks ago from a sentence after "accidentally" killing somebody in a bar fight. I forget how many years he said he did in there. Lavelle and I shoot each other glances and he mouths "What the fuck?" As he's talking, his driving is just insane and he accidentally veers into oncoming traffic, just swerving out of the way of a minivan slamming its brakes and honking its horn. Lavelle's freaking out and he clutches the arm of my jacket and says "Oh my god, we're gonna die dawg!". In my head, I'm actually wondering if I really am going to die today. The guy is completely oblivious to the fact he has no control. We miss the turn to the port and tell the local guy and he pulls of this insane u-turn that I'm surprised didn't flip the truck (you could feel it in your stomach).

He drops us off and says peace. We made it just in time. Lavelle and I are shaken up and congratulate each other on surviving. He's almost on the verge of tears. I joke that I need to go change my pants. The whole thing was just completely fucked.

Every port we ever went to after that, we made sure to check our watches and only take cabs.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:10 pm
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ms. icarus



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Louisville
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tommi teardrop wrote:
If I start an unprotected sex thread, I don't think we we should be shamed from telling stories due to the fact that we have all known someone with AIDS. It's just some shit to talk about.


Yeah, but you aren't putting innocent people at risk when you have unprotected sex. Only consenting adults... I hope.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:04 pm
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adic



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 727
Location: SJC
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It seems to me the outrage regarding drinking and driving is getting a bit out of hand. I'm not sure that society is getting a very good return on the investment. Sure, insurance companies/police/government are making money off of it now, but that's not usually who you want teaming up together and turning a profit. I don't have all the numbers to back that up right now, but that's my general perception, perhaps I'm in the wrong here...

40% of car accident fatalities are reported alcohol related, which is probably a scewed number, and the actual number of fatalities was much lower then I expected given the way the public reacts to the issue

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but honestly the money spent/gained on this issue seems to the driving force and fueling public opinion

Reminds original post glorified road head more then drinking and driving, although the title was a bit misleading, this should have been a thread about road head.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:55 pm
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