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My new blog about Jared Paul & Lord of the Rings
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Location: Zoo Town
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Disharmony wrote:
Jared Paul wrote:
Smurf Stomper wrote:
Disharmony wrote:
Wait, why would Smaug help Morodor?


Smaug was evil as shit man. Just because he was chilling in the cave with his treasure during the hobbit, you have to realize he amassed that wealth somehow. I'm sure if he would have been around during the war in Lord of the Rings, he would have gladly joined up with Mordor to increase his wealth. Come on now. I hope Jared Paul doesn't see this and come in here and school you on some Middle Earth history.



Thank you. The drakes, (Dragons) winged and non, were created by Melkor specifically for the purpose of destruction. Smaug was arguably the last living dragon in Middle Earth, and almost certainly the only active/awake. He terrorized and killed hundreds. Laid whole towns to waste. Dwarves and men. Erebor and Escargoth are geographically located just a shade northeast of Mirkwood- had Smaug been alive at the time of the Great War he would've unquestionably taken part in the turmoil, and even the combined forces there would've been no match for the dispatches from Dol Goldur and Mordor assigned to that area. And after everything was laid to waste there, he would've almost certainly gone on and participated in the assault on Lorien (just south west of the southern most part of Mirkwood) or maybe even directly to help smash the united armies of the West on the Morannon fields/the Black Gate.

And that's all with OUT the ring. Had Sauron had the ring, as he almost certainly would have if Gandalf didn't take Bilbo on the expedition with the dwarves years before, he would've been able to literally command Smaug, same as he could the Nazgul.

Would the Ring have lain dormant with Gollum under the mountains if their party had never come through? Maybe. But that's a big maybe. It is more likely that as Sauron's power grew and the ring awoke, he would've been able to call Gollum and the the ring to him... which again, would've led to the destruction of all Middle Earth.

The chances of them destroying the ring were almost impossible. So many things had to happen exactly right. It's a big part of why the story is so special.
I was under the impression Smaug was over caring about those type of things anymore. He just wanted to sit on his dragon ass and sleep on his treasures.

Oh yeah, Jared, did you enjoy the animated movie about the Hobbit? When I was a kid me and my friend would go to the public library and rent that movie for free all the time. Shit, when I was a teenager even. To this day I can watch it. I know it doesn't even stand close to the book, but yeah.

THEEEE GREATESTTTTTT ADVENTURRRRRE AND WHATTTTT LIESSSSS AHEADDDDD!


Well sure, he didn't care when things weren't going on. We are talking the war of all wars here people. Smaug would have been more than happy to take part. Or, like Jared said, Sauron probably could have forced him into if need be.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:53 am
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medicineman
HALFLING


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Iowa City
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Jared...impressive stuff...but you spelled Esgaroth wrong!

I thought I was the only person who ever actually slogged through the Silmarillion. Can I ask you something, as an obvious hardcore fan, how do you feel about the movies?
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:11 am
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Jared Paul



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 3720
Location: www.PrayersForAtheists.org
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medicineman wrote:
Jared...impressive stuff...but you spelled Esgaroth wrong!

I thought I was the only person who ever actually slogged through the Silmarillion. Can I ask you something, as an obvious hardcore fan, how do you feel about the movies?


Ahhh yes, typing to fast. Sorry bout that, I went back and fixed it.

I hate the movies with all my heart and I wish they were never made.

Period.

You can't break something like that down into Hollywood terms.

It wasn't meant for selling toys or dvds or lunch boxes or whatever else they angled to whore it out with.

The did a nice job with some of the settings, but that's about it.

The whole thing was utterly UNFORGIVABLE in my opinion.
-the casting
-the sacrilegious key plot and story changes

I wish I'd never had seen any of it.

If I see Vego Mortensen's face inside my head the next time I read the books I'm going to do something bad.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:08 am
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ROTTY



Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1407
Location: London
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Jared Paul wrote:
medicineman wrote:
Jared...impressive stuff...but you spelled Esgaroth wrong!

I thought I was the only person who ever actually slogged through the Silmarillion. Can I ask you something, as an obvious hardcore fan, how do you feel about the movies?


Ahhh yes, typing to fast. Sorry bout that, I went back and fixed it.

I hate the movies with all my heart and I wish they were never made.

Period.

You can't break something like that down into Hollywood terms.

It wasn't meant for selling toys or dvds or lunch boxes or whatever else they angled to whore it out with.

The did a nice job with some of the settings, but that's about it.

The whole thing was utterly UNFORGIVABLE in my opinion.
-the casting
-the sacrilegious key plot and story changes

I wish I'd never had seen any of it.

If I see Vego Mortensen's face inside my head the next time I read the books I'm going to do something bad.



I think Peter Jackson meant well....but he should have known some hardcore fans would not like it. Someone was gonna make it and i think it could have been so much worse.

I think he did some casting right. Gandalf and Golem.......thats about it.

I hope the hobbit will be three films and will truly capture every detail of the book.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:20 am
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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Location: Zoo Town
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So if you would have been the director or producer or whatever, how would you have made the movies different? Or would you have not made the movies at all?

I had a really hard time with the movies the first couple of times that I watched them, but then I got over it and just filled in the blanks in my mind. I like to pop them in when I want to escape reality a bit...There just aren't a lot of movies like that out there.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:21 am
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erich



Joined: 15 May 2005
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this whole thing fills me with such joy. jared paul, i hardly knew thee.

i used to date a girl who was SERIOUS about LotR; she had the limited edition hardcover of the Silmarillion and everything. it was odd, she was always a very fancy girl who worked for a PR firm, but she would throw down on some D&D with me- as long as i didnt call the hobbits "halfings."
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:28 am
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WrathChild



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 953
Location: Reno eNVy
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I really liked the movies, probably because I never read the books. Would it be worthwhile for me to read the books or have the movies ruined it for me? You say Jared taped over the cover so you wouldn't be influenced, that's why I'm worried.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:50 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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The worst part of the movies for me was the whole love story plot that they had to throw in there with Liv Tyler that was basically made up from nothing. I like the movies for the most part but the whole unnecessary sub story takes away from the main one.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:59 am
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Location: Zoo Town
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WrathChild wrote:
I really liked the movies, probably because I never read the books. Would it be worthwhile for me to read the books or have the movies ruined it for me? You say Jared taped over the cover so you wouldn't be influenced, that's why I'm worried.


Read the books, they are so much better than the movies. The movies left out all sorts of cool shit.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:13 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Smurf Stomper wrote:
WrathChild wrote:
I really liked the movies, probably because I never read the books. Would it be worthwhile for me to read the books or have the movies ruined it for me? You say Jared taped over the cover so you wouldn't be influenced, that's why I'm worried.


Read the books, they are so much better than the movies. The movies left out all sorts of cool shit.


Like the whole part with the Barrows! That was like a key thread in the whole series of books with the sword and all that they picked up and the movie just left that entire part out. (See my post above about unnecessary love stories taking place of the actual story)
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:16 am
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Disharmony



Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 3024
Location: Buried in Minnesota dirt.
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I loved the Hobbit, so much. But when I tried reading the rest of the trilogy books I couldn't get into them. Like Francis said, too much geography hoopla.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:29 am
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WrathChild



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Reno eNVy
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Sweet, just got the box set paperback for $19. Thanks!
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:48 am
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Jared Paul



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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Smurf Stomper wrote:
So if you would have been the director or producer or whatever, how would you have made the movies different? Or would you have not made the movies at all?

I had a really hard time with the movies the first couple of times that I watched them, but then I got over it and just filled in the blanks in my mind. I like to pop them in when I want to escape reality a bit...There just aren't a lot of movies like that out there.



I would NOT have made the movies. At all. Salinger style. FUCK making a movie just for the sake of making. No Catcher in the Rye, no Franny & Zooey... NO LOTR.

(Although, I must say both Gone with the Wind and To Kill a Mockingbird were decent movie representations of classic books, but that's back when they were actually making movies and not trying to sell Happy Meals)

At any rate, the only way THIS movie should have ever been undertaken was if Christopher Tolkien was given a blank check to make it as close to the books as he possibly could, and that's it. It would probably have to be done like that epic movie/doc they had about the Civil War awhile back. But maybe not even then.

Unfortunately, however crabby and trollish of me it is (no pun intended), I truthfully wish these movies were never made. I wish I had never seen them. I wish they had never been seen PERIOD.

hahahahaha

It's like the ocean sponsored by McDonalds. Or the Redwoods brought to you by Starbucks. Maybe not that bad... but for me, it's pretty goddamned close.

Liv fucking Tyler? That totally exaggerated love plot?

Arwen calling the river on the Fords of the Bruinen?

Agent Smith as ELROND?!?!? The most sacred character in the whole book possibiy, if not the most legendary being in all of Middle Earth? Grumpy and pouting and bumbling?! It's like having Walter Mathau play the arch Angel Michael and Achilles rolled into a single character

Gandalf was DECENT... at best. But nowhere near as sharp or scary as he should have been. There was no point in the those movies where Gandalf was terrifying, which he clearly was in many places.

Vego FUCKING Mortensen as Aragorn?

FARAMIR WAS A BAD GUY?!?!?!?

Boromir wandering through Rivendell and finding the shards of Narsil lying around like a fucking novelty display? AND THEN THROWING THE SWORD THAT WAS BROKEN GRUFFLY BACK DOWN LIKE IT WAS A PIECE OF TRASH?!?!?!

What the fuck was up with that Boromir death scene? That weird one arrow at a time shit? He was filled with countless arrows and was still fighting till he fell... and then they loaded the boat full of gear from orcs he killed... why was that scene so weird and fucked up?

These movies are trash, and I am sorry to the people who dig them, but they make me wanna spit.

The elves of Lorien didn't leave the forest. EVER. Much less march like soldiers in fascist military gear over a thousand miles or more to Helms Deep... with jesus christing MALFOI as the head of the fucking guard? MALFOOIIIIIIIIII. The elves of Lorien go alllll the way back to Eldamar... they didn't give a fuck about the Rohan at all. It's so far beyond reasoning it's absurd.

Elijah Wood... ELIJAH WOOD?! REALLY?

All the goof ball made for tv comic quips: "Oh... they've got a Cave Troll?" (Audience laughter)

"Gimli says something cute and dumb." (Audience laughter)

I'm not going to see the Hobbit.

Not even thinking about it.

It's gonna take years of healing to scrub Vego's face out of my mind and I want to read these books again with a clean conscience again some time before I sail over the waters myself.

GIVE IT UP FOR MY DJ... NO HOLLYWOOD LOTR SPIN ZONE (FUCK A PETER JACKSON), I'M THE MUTHA FUCKIN FRODO BAGGINS OF THIS STRANGE FAMOUS SHEEEEEEEOOTT!!

LOLLLL


*We can definitely talk shop sometime Erich! Hit me up...
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:14 pm
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McTools



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 181
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adic wrote:


Jared's knowledge of middle earth is impressive, some next level shit


No shit, I read the books many times when I was young, probably went from the Silmarillion to the end of the three books a couple times, lost tales and all, but Jared talking about them makes me feel like I never did! Mad props on your Tolkien knowledge Jared! Take the red pill n forget about the flixs!!
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:16 pm
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Disharmony



Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 3024
Location: Buried in Minnesota dirt.
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Jared. I know you view the movies as shitting on the original story...but come on. The film was made to entertain, not to school people on LOTR history. They were entertaining and the storyline fit well in their own context. Maybe I will feel this animosity when the Hobbit films come out. Until then I don't understand, I just don't. :(
Post Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:27 pm
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