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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
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Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:16 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



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C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:
neveragainlikesheep wrote:
C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:
neveragainlikesheep wrote:
C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:
in anycase to me, the zapitistas are were a bit of a modern sort of militia to me and i can't help but love what they did with their words, organization, and their guns, even as they moved on to become a political force of their own.


Except for the fact that they aren't a bunch of right wing racist goons who love to read "The Turner Diaries," play soldier and revel in conspiracy theories.


except for the fact that you are stereotyping militias.


Except for the fact that its not a stereotype and these elements are well established as being a part of the militia movement. Also except for the fact that the Zapatista's are left leaning.

Except for the fact that you crazy.


wow dude you really are confusing facts. what i am saying is that yes, in america, there are plenty of these goons in militias. but they are not the definition of a milita. and whatever language you want to say the word and whatever party you want to be in left leaning or right, you can form a militia. militias are not by nature ' right wing ' just the ones you are talking about.

when you say this is all part of the established militia movement then you are only refering to the modern right wing militia movement. what i am saying is that overall, the right to militias is bigger then that, as is the history and truth of your average every day militia.

what i am saying is dont let these guys spoil your perception of the true meaning and right of a militia. militias anywhere, in any country with any name in any language be it right or left.

just because they were left leaning does not unmake the zapatistas the great militia they were.

see...here's my line of thinking...is it militias that are the problem? no. is it these goons that are the problem? yes. get rid of militias you still have the goons.

the goons still ride on the highways. so do i. they still get their goodies at target, so do i. goons are goons but when they do something that does not make it goonish.

it's the people that are the problems, not the ways in which the people use their rights and means to demonstrate their points or their insanities.


nowadays people are like marionettes that are poised and ready to run without even a puppeteer like one of those self playing pianos. the right hates the left, the left hates the right. i'm in neither.

IF I CHOSE TO DEFINE MY SELF AND MY FEARS BY CLAIMING VICTIM TO THE RIGHT WING ID BE ANN COULTER CLAIMING THE LEFT WING MAKES A VICTIM OUT OF ME TO GAIN POWER, THUS TAKING THE VICTIM ROLE MYSELF TO CLAIM POWER BY SUBTERFUGE AND DOUBLE THINK.

in this case, black becomes white and white becomes black and i'd really rather just be taupe or opaque or barf green without my brain on double plus ungood auto think hate week time.

the militias or the right to one is not a problem. the goony people who join them are. i know equal amounts of people who have equal amounts of disdain for right wing nut job and info wars tinfoilers. thats where i like to be.


Fence sitters get poked up the bum bum by the pickets all day long.

You are being obtuse you ol' crazy. Everyone knows what "militias" actually mean in the US.
There's a difference between weekend yokels obliviously reinforcing the dominant power structures in a country and a tightly organized resistance movement responding to honest to god state violence.
And sorry, but that difference does have to do almost entirely with left or right. Sorry my pal, some people get it twisted.

The militias Jefferson and all those good white dudes from times past were referring to were not Cletus, Jethro, and Jimbo Johnson hanging out in the woods polishing their AK's and touching eachother in the bathing suit areas.

P.S. look up the difference between a militia and a select militia.
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:25 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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oh dear !

with your clever graphics you took off photobucket i have been made to see the error of my ways

yes i am wrong and you are right

ok, right wing militias are a threat to this country. they are gearing up a right wing revolution to take over this country as we speak and plan to force us all to love NASCAR, Ann Coulter, and the NRA, while doing all our shopping at Wal Mart only.

So let's get rid of the right to form a militia, strip it from the constitution, to protect us al because we all know only right wing nut jobs form militias in America.....and while we are at it, lets get rid of the pesky guns, they are just getting into the hands of these right wing militia goons who like the turner diaries. and lets ban the turner diaries while we are at it, because hey, we all know that stuff, that when read, causes brain poisoning because hey, most people can't think for themselves.

people can't think for themselves, so lets do it for them. i like that idea a lot better. neveragainlikesheep who is much like a sheeple, can you do my thinking for me? will you please secure me from the goons with their clubs and their guns? what exactly do you propose? really. i'm waiting on your help over here. SOS. shit on shit.

no really, these right wing militia groups are hardly a threat, as they have been infiltrated time and time over by the FBI, CIA, the ATF, as well as any other acronym group of our gov that you can think of, time and time over, which in effect still makes them a threat, just a threat of a different kind. like...a tool. you can use a wrench to fix a bicycle or you can use it to hit a guy in the head. you choose.

as a matter of fact keeping them around just serves to enforce the two party illusion " illusion " it gives you someone to fear and hate, someone to worry about and vice versa. it makes you sheepish to worry about them lol.

anyways, this is silly worrying about these dudes. dont worry about them because when you do you waste your energy. wasting your energy is a crime in the peoples republic of the americas


Last edited by C.R.A.Z.Y on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:32 pm
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Confidential



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the Zapatistas aren't a militia they are an army, supported by their constituents who have a clear political analysis.
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:36 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



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[quote="Raoul DeGroot"]You are being obtuse you ol' crazy. Everyone knows what "militias" actually mean in the US. [quote]

stop letting " everyone " redefine things for you as popular culture changes.

by the way I am NOT a "fence sitter" that would infer that the only correct path would be democrat, OR republicans, in their various shades in flavors, as if i have to " side " i do not have a side. my side is humanity.

but once again, nice try.

anyways, this is silly.

anyone could go out and form a militia today and without being right wing would still classify as a valid militia. you keep arguin that everyone knows militias are just right wing nut jobs.

and my point is who the fuck is everyone and what does it matter if most or many current militias are right wing nut jobs? that shouldnt redefine the meaning of the word militia

stupid people can do stupid things and harm others with or without a group or label. my point is that they view many of us as their enemies and many of us view them as our enemy and that this kind of divided thinking is what is causing a problem.

the way people think in right and left absolutes is a problem, the problem that crreates this kind of action. i wish people were free from this kind of thinking but what can i say? even i myself have been a victim to having a quarter plunked into my player piano programming at times.

toodles.


Last edited by C.R.A.Z.Y on Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:41 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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Confidential wrote:
the Zapatistas aren't a militia they are an army, supported by their constituents who have a clear political analysis.


yes, but originally they were not a party with such a clear political analysis. and they were not a legal part of the peoples government, and were more revolutionaries, like the militia men that helped found this country. when they armed themselves to fight for sovereign rights, locally and for the protection of their communities they were basically militias. illegal ones to boot. but, much like the militia men who helped found america, were somewhat successful and now have a place in the government as a party. they made change. in their country considered left wing nut job change by many.

and are militias not armies? when militias went to the front and fought for americas freedom from briton and taxes, were the militia men not soldiers of an army?

and I will now issue my final word on this subject.

I feel as if many of you are trying to say that ...

Right wing nut jobs + Militias = The word Militia is now redefined and redefined as BAD, therefore all militas are BAD and should be viewed as the same.

but i feel that

Right wing nut jobs + Militias = Right wing nut jobs being as annoying and predictable as ever and merely using one more of their rights to illustrate such annoyingness. the same people could rightfully stand in line with a picket sign that says GOD HATES FAGZ and it isnt the picket signs fault just the fault of the idiot holding it....

their members state of being does not redefine the true meaning of the word " militia "

I do not like the words of a racist but they have the right to say something racist. Take away their right to say something racist and then everyone else rights to freedom of speech is gone. same shit.

anyways i'm going to go do something fun. i support the right to form militias. it is my right, guaranteed to me. as for me supporting right wing nut job militias, LOL at that one.

act like you dont know what i mean and then i will say that you are on your way to becoming part of the problem.

a right is a right and a law is a law.

even nut jobs have rights to form militias and when they do, and then break a law, the law can take care of it baby.

in the meantime, keep playing that same old ragtime.

i like my rights even though other people use the same rights differently. i still want to retain mine despite all clear and current prejudiced.
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:44 pm
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:
Confidential wrote:
the Zapatistas aren't a militia they are an army, supported by their constituents who have a clear political analysis.


yes, but originally they were not a party or a legal part of the peoples government, and were more revolutionaries, like the militia men that helped found this country. when they armed themsleves to fight for sovereign rights, locally and for the protection of their communities they were basically militias. illegal ones to boot. but, much like the militia men who helped founded americas were successful and now have a place in the government as a party and whatnot.


OK, first I want to say that I kind of see where you're coming from with opposing the left/right republican/democrat binary. For example, both the right and some autonomous sectors of the left think the federal gov is too invasive. But lets not shit each other, these concerns stem from very different ideological differences. I think you are taking militias out of context of the US, which is what we are kind of mocking in this thread. I'm not against armed rebellion, or self defense necessarily. I'm against arming yourself out of nationalist fantasies of a mythic past embedded in white supremacy.

The Z's don't want to be a part of any party or electoral politics and propose a radically democratic alternative. Which I think gets overlooked in the U.S. But yes, they are quite impressive in military strategy, though I think they were successful in that only because of the widespread international support. But again, Mexico 1994 and USA 1776 are fundamentally different revolutions.

lets not separate the word "militias" from its cultural connotations.
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:04 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



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C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:

stop letting " everyone " redefine things for you as popular culture changes.

by the way I am NOT a "fence sitter" that would infer that the only correct path would be democrat, OR republicans, in their various shades in flavors, as if i have to " side " i do not have a side. my side is humanity.

but once again, nice try.

anyways, this is silly.

anyone could go out and form a militia today and without being right wing would still classify as a valid militia. you keep arguin that everyone knows militias are just right wing nut jobs.

and my point is who the fuck is everyone and what does it matter if most or many current militias are right wing nut jobs? that shouldnt redefine the meaning of the word militia

stupid people can do stupid things and harm others with or without a group ior label. my point is that they view many of us as their enemies and many of us view them as our enemy and that this kind of divided thinking is what is causing a problem.

the way people think in right and left absolutes is a problem, the problem that crreates this kind of action. i wish people were free from this kind of thinking but what can i say? even i myself have been a victim to having a quarter plunked into my player piano programming at times.

toodles.


Democrat/Republican doesn't have much to do with Left or Right.
The big strokes of being "Left wing" are pretty loose, but basically boil down to universal solidarity, informed choice, and broad participation in the decision making processes that affect communities large and small. That's what the left means, if in practice or reputation other humbuggery gets tossed in, well, you still get the meaning. If your side is humanity, then that's your side. So you can think clearer now and don't have to be a fence sitter anymore. I just simplified your life.

It doesn't matter if you think the meaning of the word militia shouldn't be redefined by its usage. It already happened. It's kind of a boring rhetorical point to stand on.

Divided thinking and demonizing the opposing side is really not the big problem holding us back. I can't stand hearing that shit from my midwest cousins. Unclear, halfbaked thinking that refuses to formulate any sort of cohesive idea of what's for the good and what's for the bad, is the problem.

Smell ya later, smelly
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:11 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



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Confidential wrote:
C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:
Confidential wrote:
the Zapatistas aren't a militia they are an army, supported by their constituents who have a clear political analysis.


yes, but originally they were not a party or a legal part of the peoples government, and were more revolutionaries, like the militia men that helped found this country. when they armed themsleves to fight for sovereign rights, locally and for the protection of their communities they were basically militias. illegal ones to boot. but, much like the militia men who helped founded americas were successful and now have a place in the government as a party and whatnot.


OK, first I want to say that I kind of see where you're coming from with opposing the left/right republican/democrat binary. For example, both the right and some autonomous sectors of the left think the federal gov is too invasive. But lets not shit each other, these concerns stem from very different ideological differences. I think you are taking militias out of context of the US, which is what we are kind of mocking in this thread. I'm not against armed rebellion, or self defense necessarily. I'm against arming yourself out of nationalist fantasies of a mythic past embedded in white supremacy.

The Z's don't want to be a part of any party or electoral politics and propose a radically democratic alternative. Which I think gets overlooked in the U.S. But yes, they are quite impressive in military strategy, though I think they were successful in that only because of the widespread international support. But again, Mexico 1994 and USA 1776 are fundamentally different revolutions.

lets not separate the word "militias" from its cultural connotations.


i get and appreciate what you are saying about cultural connotations but i dont think a cultural connotation should change a right or repeal it. but what i am saying is that I myself retain the right to join or form a militia at anytime. and i am not a right wing nut job. just because most typical american militias today are believed to be right wing nut jobs, does not change the true meaning of the word militia. or the identity of what a militia basically is regardless of who started it, and why it is our right to form one.

anyays, i have already made my point. numerous times and ways. what i want to know is...i hear y'alls points, that they are currently in america, right wing nut job militas, but my point is what do you propose to do about it, because otherwise this is all just whining about some other groups of people you dont like who use their rights to act badly by our definition. really, do you want to make militias illegal, would you propose to take away my right to form or join one? because... i dont like the god hates fagz signs...so should we make picket signs illegal too? someone shoots to kill it is not the guns fault but the fault of he who pulls the trigger. much like the illegalize guns discussion.

the problem isnt the militias. they are less harmful then cars, global warming or anything else relatively harmful to society that i can think of. most of you find current cars by today's definition to be harmful to society because of the environmental impact but most of you drive one anyways. but lets not illegalize cars because people drive harmful ones, lets get people into better cars with education.

as a matter of fact by the virtue of militias being organized, they have already been infiltrated and there is already everything known about the members and their plans that there is to be known, known. like i already said, the government infiltrates them and learns what they can and even works them from the insides. they pose no threat and are merely self masturbatory.

i dont feel threatened by people who are different then i am and also who feel and do things that i think are ideologically wrong. i dont feel threatened by right wing militias and ann coulter nut jobs.

this is because i am free.

anyways, i get what you all are trying to say, i am just saying that, so what if you dont like their little wacky oft racist right wing nut job gun clubs for america, what the fuck are you going to do about it though? if the answer is nothing then i thought so. if the answer is to take away the right to form a militia then i would be pissed off because it is my right guaranteed to me and like i said i want to keep my rights, even the antiquated ones, i might need them later.

anyways, unless you guys have a proposal on what to do about them then there's nothing left to talk about, nothing else to say...just one more case of pointing at the guy you dont like and saying you dont like him and why but offering no credible soution. typical.

i think the current solution as for what to do about them is just fine. the gov keeps abreast of all their plans by sending in spooks to gather intelligence on their plans. i guess that's the best that can be done while still providing the right to form a militia and own a gun to all.

anyways i have nothing else to say. i have made whatever points i have to make. i will now abandon this thread because nothing anyone has said here benefits my mind enough.

i do like this confidential guy though. muy bueno.

ciao busters.

P.S.

Raoul DeGroot wrote:


Democrat/Republican doesn't have much to do with Left or Right.
Smell ya later, smelly


i merely refer to highly charged political polar opposities to make a point about todays examples of "opposition"

the only thing smelley around here is the fact that you think you're the shit.
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:27 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



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Who felt threatened by militias? I think people were disturbed by the undercurrents leading to these particular types and maybe the undue attention a bunch of outliers get from the media.

The militia aspect is just a red herring that legitimizes a bunch of dormant, self defeating ideas that the middle/lower class income bracket in this country have festering in their guts for no sensible reason but fear and hypothetical greed.
I don't see how anyone could be free and not worried by that.

So you're right, militias aren't really the problem except that everyone's vague idea of their function masks a lot of bogus motivations and practices (that like you said in the car scenario, could be fixed up with education and resources).

The second amendment should definitely be clarified. It's not just about anybody and their buddies getting guns to shoot the black helicopters. It's about voluntary and representative community based organization to counterbalance and assist a standing (paid) army. More like a volunteer fire department than a paramilitary organization. Or it should be anyway.
Post Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:56 pm
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mortalthoughts
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the mean wrote:
mortalthoughts wrote:
nothing to explain really i just could see the feds taking over gestapo style in the not to distant future

I'm sure there is a teaparty begging for your attendance.


hahahaha nah im a good little sheep i pay my taxes(though i think a flat tax MIGHT be nice)
ive often wonder what the feds have done for me though besides tell me what NOT to do and take my tax $
Post Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:27 am
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mortalthoughts
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redball wrote:
neveragainlikesheep wrote:
redball wrote:
I thought he infowars crowds were lefties.


Fuck no. They fashion themselves as "Libertarians" but the truth is they are just a bunch of nutjob right wingers.


Ah, okay. I don't know because I avoid it like the plague but every person who has ever linked me to an infowars article has been at least a social liberal, though some were political conservative.

fuck a 'leftie' fuck a 'libertairian' fuck a 'right wing'
have an opionon who gives a fuck where on what 'scale' you fall under
Post Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:30 am
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the mean
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mortalthoughts wrote:
ive often wonder what the feds have done for me though besides tell me what NOT to do and take my tax $

Post Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:26 am
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Sage Francis
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mortalthoughts wrote:
redball wrote:
neveragainlikesheep wrote:
redball wrote:
I thought he infowars crowds were lefties.


Fuck no. They fashion themselves as "Libertarians" but the truth is they are just a bunch of nutjob right wingers.


Ah, okay. I don't know because I avoid it like the plague but every person who has ever linked me to an infowars article has been at least a social liberal, though some were political conservative.

fuck a 'leftie' fuck a 'libertairian' fuck a 'right wing'
have an opionon who gives a fuck where on what 'scale' you fall under


It just so happens that peoples beliefs fall under a category sometimes. And there's power in numbers. That's how it works.
Post Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:37 am
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C.R.A.Z.Y



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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Sage Francis wrote:
mortalthoughts wrote:
redball wrote:
neveragainlikesheep wrote:
redball wrote:
I thought he infowars crowds were lefties.


Fuck no. They fashion themselves as "Libertarians" but the truth is they are just a bunch of nutjob right wingers.


Ah, okay. I don't know because I avoid it like the plague but every person who has ever linked me to an infowars article has been at least a social liberal, though some were political conservative.

fuck a 'leftie' fuck a 'libertairian' fuck a 'right wing'
have an opionon who gives a fuck where on what 'scale' you fall under


It just so happens that peoples beliefs fall under a category sometimes. And there's power in numbers. That's how it works.


eh. too true.
i just try not to fall into divisive thinking just for the sake of the team.

too many people feel like if you are a republican you have to be pro cconservative spending, pro guns, anti abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage and if you are a dem, liberal, you have to be pro gun laws, pro choice, gay marriage, etc. then when i was out canvassing i would meet so many people who would get confused about who they wanted to vote for because the issues seemed to always be divided among clean cut lines...like you said power in numbers. like this one woman who in every sense considered here self a democrat but always voted republican because she was pro life and she says that being pro life is her number one concern as she is like catholic or whatever and it is part of her belief but then she was like i alwaysd hate all the republican candidates but i vote for them to fight for pro life. i would meet a lot of people like her and some " republicans " who would feel like they had to vote for the democratic candidates because they were gay and wanted gay rights and they didnt like having to choose between the financially conservative candidate who would say no to gay rights in favor of the democratic candidate who would support gay rights...but spend americas money like it was going out of style. so they would choose their candidate even outside of their chosen party lines because of a divisive " key issue " and that always bugged me.

anyways i lied, im back in this thread. sigh.
Post Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:09 pm
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