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The Woman that was fined 220,000 for 24 song downloads...
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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the mean
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futuristxen wrote:
How is a fine like this not cruel and unusual? Is ruining someone's life financially--does that fit the crime? She probably isn't going to make 1.9 million in her entire lifetime.

"Cruel and unusual" applies to criminal cases. This was a civil case "for money." Also, she got a court judgment against her, not a fine.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:21 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
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the mean wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
How is a fine like this not cruel and unusual? Is ruining someone's life financially--does that fit the crime? She probably isn't going to make 1.9 million in her entire lifetime.

"Cruel and unusual" applies to criminal cases. This was a civil case "for money." Also, she got a court judgment against her, not a fine.


http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/record-labels-awarde

"the Supreme Court has made it clear that “grossly excessive” punitive damage awards (e.g., $2 million award against BMW for selling a repainted BMW as "new") violate the Due Process clause of the U.S. Constitution."

The 8th Amendment applies to all court rulings, not just criminal cases.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:42 am
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the mean
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neveragainlikesheep wrote:
The 8th Amendment applies to all court rulings, not just criminal cases.

Don't make stuff up.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:15 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Objection sustained. Does the defense want to sidebar?
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:17 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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In all seriousness this is a grossly exaggerated fine. I could understand something in the low thousands for processing fees, court fees, damages, etc.

What does a person do when they're fined this much money and can't possibly pay it off? I'm winking at you, Mean.

And what's this Eight Amendment misappropriation stuff?
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:24 am
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the mean
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Yes, this is a ridiculous judgment that probably won't stand up in the court of appeals. If it gets that far.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:25 am
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the mean
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Captiv8 wrote:
What does a person do when they're fined this much money and can't possibly pay it off?

It depends on how the plaintiff wants to collect. They can garnish your wages, attach your bank account. Foreclose on your home, go after your car. Lots of options.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:27 am
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Captiv8



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the mean wrote:
Captiv8 wrote:
What does a person do when they're fined this much money and can't possibly pay it off?

It depends on how the plaintiff wants to collect. They can garnish your wages, attach your bank account. Foreclose on your home, go after your car. Lots of options.


So they basically cripple you. How do they figure you'll be able to provide them their money without a place to stay and a way to get to work? I just can't see ruining someone's life for something like this. Community service or something similar, but not this.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:31 am
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the mean
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Captiv8 wrote:
So they basically cripple you. How do they figure you'll be able to provide them their money without a place to stay and a way to get to work? I just can't see ruining someone's life for something like this. Community service or something similar, but not this.

You don't get community service when a private individual (or company) gets a money judgment against you.

How to squeeze the most money out of someone is an art that collection attorneys are very good at.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:34 am
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redball



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The EFF is making no eighth amendment claims. They're making fifth amendment claims.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:37 am
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Captiv8



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The law is so convoluted.

Edit: And the entire legal system.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:40 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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If this stood, could she not just declare immediate bankruptcy?
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:42 am
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Jelly87



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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futuristxen wrote:
If this stood, could she not just declare immediate bankruptcy?
Thats what I was thinking. As long as she owns a car and can come up with I believe a thousand dollars plus lawyer costs, shes straight.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:46 am
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the mean
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Captiv8 wrote:
The law is so convoluted.

Edit: And the entire legal system.

If the law were made easy, how would lawyers be able to make millions of dollars?
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:56 am
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Captiv8



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the mean wrote:
Captiv8 wrote:
The law is so convoluted.

Edit: And the entire legal system.

If the law were made easy, how would lawyers be able to make millions of dollars?


Good point. There should be some basic law course taught in high school so people can get a grasp on processes, their legal rights, consequences, etc. So much needs to change, but no lawmaker wants to appear soft on crime. Re-election concerns are ruining our legislation.
Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:56 am
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