Profile
Search
Register
Log in
Iranian Elections Controversy
View previous topic | View next topic >

Post new topic Reply to topic
Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

Author Message
Jascha



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 3936
Location: Seoul, SK
 Reply with quote  

I am seriously skeptical about how much organizing really is done through twitter and what its influence really is.

It's all fun to read that 'a street is full of people' on twitter, but it's utterly useless from a news or organizational perspective...
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:04 am
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
 Reply with quote  

It's useful because it is the beginning of the story from a source that isn't a government agency or a major media corporation. If it's the whole story then it's pretty useless.

I disagree that twitter is the big news here, though.
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:14 am
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
 Reply with quote  

Jascha wrote:
I am seriously skeptical about how much organizing really is done through twitter and what its influence really is.

It's all fun to read that 'a street is full of people' on twitter, but it's utterly useless from a news or organizational perspective...


Organization is not how Twitter is being used in Iran. Twitter is being used as a real-time communications tool, as a result of the Iranian government's censorship of other social networking websites (i.e. Facebook, Myspace, etc.)

This past weekend, many Iranians were tweeting and people from all around the world were/still are reading the tweets. Those readers went to the major news media outlets (i.e. CNN, MSNBC) to find that out they were not covering the issue (yet). Thus, Twitter is acting like a real-time information gathering tool, that connects the first hand accounts with viewers FASTER THAN the media outlets. This was is the significant part.

I would also state that this is not 'coverage' of the news. There are no news anchors providing analysis. However if you read enough tweets to piece together some of the information or there is someone who aggregates all the tweets, it is possible to create a different type of "coverage."
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:15 am
 View user's profile Send private message
neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
 Reply with quote  

Asterax wrote:
Jascha wrote:
I am seriously skeptical about how much organizing really is done through twitter and what its influence really is.

It's all fun to read that 'a street is full of people' on twitter, but it's utterly useless from a news or organizational perspective...


Organization is not how Twitter is being used in Iran. Twitter is being used as a real-time communications tool, as a result of the Iranian government's censorship of other social networking websites (i.e. Facebook, Myspace, etc.)

This past weekend, many Iranians were tweeting and people from all around the world were/still are reading the tweets. Those readers went to the major news media outlets (i.e. CNN, MSNBC) to find that out they were not covering the issue (yet). Thus, Twitter is acting like a real-time information gathering tool, that connects the first hand accounts with viewers FASTER THAN the media outlets. This was is the significant part.

I would also state that this is not 'coverage' of the news. There are no news anchors providing analysis. However if you read enough tweets to piece together some of the information or there is someone who aggregates all the tweets, it is possible to create a different type of "coverage."


Bingo. The only reason we know as much as we do right now is because Twitter is being used to spread the word throughout the world.
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:18 am
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1856
Location: Orange County
 Reply with quote  

I dont know about this tweeter thing.


Also I may come off as being a little ignorant here, but if Iran really wanted to shut off all aspects of news, wouldn't they shut off access to tweeter? or did they already do that?

And if i'm not mistaken all the people of titter are doing are just posting about the riots, no real political stuff. isn't the essence of covering this to see whether or not it was fixed election or not? The riots are a result of that but not the actual story I suppose.
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:29 am
 View user's profile Send private message
Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
 Reply with quote  

O2K wrote:
I dont know about this tweeter thing.


Also I may come off as being a little ignorant here, but if Iran really wanted to shut off all aspects of news, wouldn't they shut off access to tweeter? or did they already do that?

And if i'm not mistaken all the people of titter are doing are just posting about the riots, no real political stuff. isn't the essence of covering this to see whether or not it was fixed election or not? The riots are a result of that but not the actual story I suppose.


As a preface, I can understand your perspective in not believing in the importance of twitter as a communications tool. I really enjoy studying modern technical issues like this, so I am bias.

As for your statement concerning the technical ability of the Iranian government to censor twitter, it is very difficult to block twitter users from tweeting unless they completely shut off internet access from Iran.

The Iranian government could have blacklisted twitter.com, however they did not. While censoring the website itself could prevent someone from directly accessing it through twitter.com, there are many ways other ways to tweet.

For example, there are specialized applications for mobile phones, making it possible to tweet without visiting twitter.com. There are also downloadable applications or websites like (hellotxt.com) which allow you to post your status on a variety of social networking websites again without going to twitter.com

According this recent NY Times article, Iranians are also using proxies to circumvent the censorship of different sites. Just like the case of censorship in China, which is referenced in the NY Times article, it is difficult to fully block an individual's access to information.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/world/middleeast/16media.html

Having just lived in Cuba for the past four months, I can tell you that the Cuban government is quite successful at Internet censorship, but the reasons are mostly economic. It simply costs too much for "regular" Cubans to gain access to unfiltered Internet access. Plus high-speed broadband does not exist in that country, they use satellite.
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:00 am
 View user's profile Send private message
bakemosphere



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 701
Location: 304
 Reply with quote  

they're relaying info about troop locations, blockades, tear gas being used on peaceful protesters and their uploading live footage and pics via twitpic. they're coordinating DDoS attacks on the state-run media servers while users from around the world are retweeting and hosting new proxies for them to use. they're also helping students escape to safe places.

yeah.. not really a big deal.

keep hatin' - fact of the matter is twitter is the only reason we have as much information about the situation as we do.. there was hardly any information from any mainstream source until yesterday. And as someone said above the twitter community even got a scheduled maintenance by twitters hosting company delayed due to the fact that if twitter goes down then they really have no outlet to get their information out.

suck it Wolf and O'Reilly, new media just took the fuck over.

[edit] http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/16/state-department-to-twitter-keep-iranian-tweets-coming/
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:50 am
 View user's profile Send private message
futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
 Reply with quote  

bakemosphere wrote:
they're relaying info about troop locations, blockades, tear gas being used on peaceful protesters and their uploading live footage and pics via twitpic. they're coordinating DDoS attacks on the state-run media servers while users from around the world are retweeting and hosting new proxies for them to use. they're also helping students escape to safe places.

yeah.. not really a big deal.

keep hatin' - fact of the matter is twitter is the only reason we have as much information about the situation as we do.. there was hardly any information from any mainstream source until yesterday. And as someone said above the twitter community even got a scheduled maintenance by twitters hosting company delayed due to the fact that if twitter goes down then they really have no outlet to get their information out.

suck it Wolf and O'Reilly, new media just took the fuck over.

[edit] http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/16/state-department-to-twitter-keep-iranian-tweets-coming/


Yeah for friday and saturday, the only way to even follow this story was through twitter. Or from people who were aggregating twitter posts into stories. The mainstream media was taking a holiday. Not the first time, not the last time.

What's fascinating is that because of it, I think the american people are getting a brand new view and appreciation of Iranians. Very diffrent from what we've been sold through the media and Bush. Hard to paint these people as Walt Disney Villians now. Hard to just say "oh we'll just bomb them". Twitter allows for an almost raw connection to places where we are accustomed to having filters.
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:40 pm
 View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Jascha



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 3936
Location: Seoul, SK
 Reply with quote  

I partially agree with that, but I still find most of my information not on some blog where a guy collects a list of tweets and then calls it journalism.

I still got most of the story from newspapers and 'the old media'.

And with story, I mean the backgrounds, the official political narrative going on behind the protests, the solid fact checking (and before somebody yells that the media are biassed and bad journalists, it's not like bloggers are really any better at it).

Following twitters from Iran has been a lot of fun. It's a bit like following the blogs from that IT guy that weathered the storm during katrina and posted videos and shit. That was some serious on-the-scene coverage that was lacking from tv news and newspapers. And I see that that is useful for an iranian that wants to talk to his friends a street over, to let them know what's up and share info. But that's not at all relevant to a broader newsstory - not to me at least.

And I really think that that's where it ends for twitter and blogs (for now) because they never really go beyond that street-level quick-info perspective.
And if they DO go beyond it, they go beyond it on a single very specific issue (as with iran right now) and, in most cases, by quoting so called 'main stream media' (see: bloggers posting cnn and bbc videos, linking to reuters)...

I can pick a newspaper or tv channel and with some decent source selection on my side, get the stories I need to know about and some in-depth facts about it.

I could also go online, but inevitable the info I would get would either be unchecked personal perspectives, or a reference to a story that ran in a newspaper or on tv.

I'm not saying it's useless. I'm not saying it's uninteresting. I'm just saying I'm skeptical about its usefulness to me at the moment, and the use of twitter as an organizational tool.


Anyway, Asterax' post pretty much answered my skepticism without going into a 'suck it o'reillly' passive-aggressive diatribe.
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:16 pm
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
 Reply with quote  

This article is about the Iran election: http://blog.ted.com/2009/06/qa_with_clay_sh.php

This talk happened in May, but talks about the sort of stuff we're seeing:
Post Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:11 pm
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
billy pilgrim



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 413
 Reply with quote  

I'm still writing about the 2000 US Presidential election, a FAR more interesting case of "rigged" elections.

What's the Freedom House score for America?

What is it of Iran?

My point is Iran is not exactly the beacon of liberal democracy. America supposedly is yet we have corruption that cuts across all kinds of different levels ourselves.

It also bothers me that people are rushing to mention Twitter, some American-based yuppie text messaging service.

Let's face it its obviously a government/media ploy to show how great American innovation is and how we're the righteous kings of new media.

"We're democratizing nations by allowing people to text message tons of other people! How liberal is that!"


Last edited by billy pilgrim on Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:12 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:05 am
 View user's profile Send private message
billy pilgrim



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 413
 Reply with quote  

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/world/middleeast/17media.html?_r=1&hp

Solid example of the Twitter fluffing above


"Yet on Monday afternoon, a 27-year-old State Department official, Jared Cohen, e-mailed the social-networking site Twitter with an unusual request: delay scheduled maintenance of its global network, which would have cut off service while Iranians were using Twitter to swap information and inform the outside world about the mushrooming protests around Tehran."

The request, made to a Twitter co-founder, Jack Dorsey, is yet another new-media milestone: the recognition by the United States government that an Internet blogging service that did not exist four years ago has the potential to change history in an ancient Islamic country."


"Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton talks regularly about the power of e-diplomacy, particularly in places where the mass media are repressed."


HAHAH

You got to hand it to America, we take something like a rigged election in Iran and spin it into an advertisement for the new products we're peddling on the world.


Last edited by billy pilgrim on Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:14 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:07 am
 View user's profile Send private message
AdamBomb



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 3183
Location: Louisiana
 Reply with quote  

redball wrote:
This article is about the Iran election: http://blog.ted.com/2009/06/qa_with_clay_sh.php

This talk happened in May, but talks about the sort of stuff we're seeing:



Man, thanks for posting this. I wish I had a guy like this as a professor in school. Great presentation.
Post Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:09 am
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2000
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
 Reply with quote  

After a link to this Computer World article from June 10th or so...
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9134233#

Here's a repost of something I wrote on my Facebook page earlier tonight:

I mean, yeah, I know, Twitter doesn't actually sell a product, but I'm not the only one wondering whether or not U.S. export control laws apply to them. I didn't care about this a week ago, but this week the State Department asked Twitter to postpone a maintenance window that might have had a chilling effect on the Iranian election fraud protests. Are we going to have to give Twitter retroactive immunity too?

Excerpt of something I wrote elsewhere:

On the one hand this is a laudable response, an acknowledgment of the ways in which technology can be a coalescing tool for democracy and civic participation. This cannot be underestimated -- the good guys are using Twitter to do something very important and I'm very proud that my government has endorsed that.

On the other hand, isn't Twitter in danger of violating United States export control laws by allowing Iranian citizens to use the service? This is certainly suggested by an article that Computer World ran on June 10th -- and by the fact that Twitter has been used recently, and used quite overtly, to coordinate various attacks (notably DDoS) on Iranian government websites.

... it could (in extreme terms) also be characterized as an instance of the United States government explicitly endorsing the use by Iranian nationals of an American website to coordinate an act of cyberwar against their own government.
Post Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:27 am
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
leifkolt



Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 293
Location: Where good people go to die.
 Reply with quote  

Mark in Minnesota wrote:

... it could (in extreme terms) also be characterized as an instance of the United States government explicitly endorsing the use by Iranian nationals of an American website to coordinate an act of cyberwar against their own government.


That's hitting the nail on the head.
Post Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:24 am
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
All times are GMT - 6 Hours.
The time now is Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:28 pm
  Display posts from previous:      


Powered by phpBB: © 2001 phpBB Group
Template created by The Fathom
Based on template of Nick Mahon