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uk paper: new Abu Ghraib photos depict rape/sexual assault
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1856
Location: Orange County
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ROTTY wrote:


Its shitty but people should stop being shocked by it! They should just expect it.


im not down with. there are many things wrong with this statement, I don't even know where to begin.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 10:14 am
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ROTTY



Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1407
Location: London
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O2K wrote:
ROTTY wrote:


Its shitty but people should stop being shocked by it! They should just expect it.


im not down with. there are many things wrong with this statement, I don't even know where to begin.


Im not sorry...im just shit at getting points across... just come off a long day of work with little sleep from last night. Read my post again its been edited sligthly.


Last edited by ROTTY on Thu May 28, 2009 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu May 28, 2009 10:20 am
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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It doesn't have to be either abject cynicism or blind jingoistic fervour. There IS a reasonable way to deal with war crimes when they happen.

Fucking prosecute the fucking war criminals.

Extradite the erstwhile Bush administration to a manjack. To not do so is continuously dishonourable.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 10:21 am
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Alan Hague



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 621
Location: http://askthedead.bandcamp.com
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Nothing about this in today's New York Times. (I'm not sure if I should be surprised or not, though.)
Post Thu May 28, 2009 11:31 am
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box johnson



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 1123
Location: Denver
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Quote:

Mr Obama said the individuals involved had been “identified, and appropriate actions” taken.


So the "individuals involved" were killed? Demoted? Sent to Gitmo?
Is it this lack of transparency everyone is so mad about in this thread? Do we need their pictures on Nancy Grace?
Post Thu May 28, 2009 12:09 pm
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WeDueThis



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 270
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So when one of my friends come home in a body bag ill know who to be mad at. Keep the pictures secret and protect/bring home our troops, not embolden and enrage the enemy.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 12:59 pm
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WeDueThis



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 270
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Jesse wrote:
It doesn't have to be either abject cynicism or blind jingoistic fervour. There IS a reasonable way to deal with war crimes when they happen.

Fucking prosecute the fucking war criminals.

Extradite the erstwhile Bush administration to a manjack. To not do so is continuously dishonourable.
Yea thats great i agree with all that but lets not put this shit on total blast and just hit the bees hive when we aren't the ones who are gonna get shot at or our heads chopped off over the release of the pictures.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 1:00 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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WeDueThis wrote:
So when one of my friends come home in a body bag ill know who to be mad at. Keep the pictures secret and protect/bring home our troops, not embolden and enrage the enemy.


but then these attrocities will then continue. this type of thinking is a "shit i fucked up let me cover it up" rather than owning up to what was done. a person of intigrity would own up to it.

the mentality should be "our people fucked up, we'll own up to it" rather than "our people fucked up and we'll do whatever we can to cover their asses."
Post Thu May 28, 2009 1:03 pm
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box johnson



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 1123
Location: Denver
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O2K wrote:
WeDueThis wrote:
So when one of my friends come home in a body bag ill know who to be mad at. Keep the pictures secret and protect/bring home our troops, not embolden and enrage the enemy.


but then these attrocities will then continue. this type of thinking is a "shit i fucked up let me cover it up" rather than owning up to what was done. a person of intigrity would own up to it.

the mentality should be "our people fucked up, we'll own up to it" rather than "our people fucked up and we'll do whatever we can to cover their asses."


You can own something on a multitude of levels. Just because there isn't a disgraced U.S. soldier's picture on the front page of the Times with a quote from his/her family about what a great kid they were doesn't mean the administration is just waiting for the news cycle to pass.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 1:18 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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the mean wrote:
I think Shamb is right on in this thread (at least the edited version of Shamb.) Not releasing these photos is a shameful move by Obama.


Agreed. More and more often, I come to this forum and find shamb articulating (more clearly and succinctly, usually) what I've been arguing about with my friends at work all day re: Obama's track record so far.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 3:48 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11244
Location: MN
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ROTTY wrote:
Raping and pillaging has always been a war tactic. It just not in the training manual. Vikings did not invent it Its in human nature....dates back to cave men probably. Its a power and dominance thing driven by false hate.

Its shitty but people should stop being shocked by it! They should just expect it and teach it in schools. Show the nasty stuff to the youth early on instead of depicting these Genrals and commanders as fairy tale like heros like every bullshit history lesson i had.

cant type right now so not gonna correct me spelling....too tired!


Sociologists and anthropologists have studied this to a great degree and by no means is there any consensus on violence being natural to the human condition.

In your example, take the Viking's harsh winter environment. Sparse nutrients and lack of sunlight, causing what modern psychologists refer to as 'cabin fever', or SAD, Seasonal Affective Disorder.

I'm suggesting on the spectrum of nature vs. nurture, that the Viking's culture and local habitat had much more to play than the species, human.

In the past biological anthropologist have looked to chimps going on war parties to justify how we as a species are violent by nature.

But those chimps were observed in times of insane habitat encroachment by humans. The behavior cannot be attributed to the animal's nature alone. Not even close.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 7:34 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9239
Location: london
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dan, you're the bollocks, you big library. amazing
Post Thu May 28, 2009 7:46 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6290
Location: airstrip one
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Dan Shay wrote:
ROTTY wrote:
Raping and pillaging has always been a war tactic. It just not in the training manual. Vikings did not invent it Its in human nature....dates back to cave men probably. Its a power and dominance thing driven by false hate.

Its shitty but people should stop being shocked by it! They should just expect it and teach it in schools. Show the nasty stuff to the youth early on instead of depicting these Genrals and commanders as fairy tale like heros like every bullshit history lesson i had.

cant type right now so not gonna correct me spelling....too tired!


Sociologists and anthropologists have studied this to a great degree and by no means is there any consensus on violence being natural to the human condition.

In your example, take the Viking's harsh winter environment. Sparse nutrients and lack of sunlight, causing what modern psychologists refer to as 'cabin fever', or SAD, Seasonal Affective Disorder.

I'm suggesting on the spectrum of nature vs. nurture, that the Viking's culture and local habitat had much more to play than the species, human.

In the past biological anthropologist have looked to chimps going on war parties to justify how we as a species are violent by nature.

But those chimps were observed in times of insane habitat encroachment by humans. The behavior cannot be attributed to the animal's nature alone. Not even close.


Those dudes needed to take up skiing or mountaineering or hockey.

Maybe ice fishing.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 8:58 pm
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Shinigami



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 275
Location: Midwest
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it's interesting reading all this after recently watching this documentary called Standard Operating Procedure, anyone else seen it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNQziV7wgjw

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Post Thu May 28, 2009 10:30 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6297
Location: the barber of hard truths
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firefly wrote:
Maybe there's something I don't understand but I don't see why these pictures can't be used in court without publishing them for the whole world to see.


You and Jesse are both entirely missing the point. First, you can easily scramble the face of the victim. That's a given.

The issue is that you release the pictures for the very reason that Obama wants to keep a lid on them. To create outrage. People quietly huff and puff and make vague references to putting torture officials on trial, but it won't happen unless there is broad public support for doing so. Will Rush Limbaugh be able to call rape pictures "frat antics?" I don't think so. Those pictures are not being released because they are presumably so shocking, offensive, and heart-stopping that they will profoundly affect people, which would probably create political pressure for investigations and prosecutions. Images affect people much, much more deeply than words. The importance of those photos lies in their capacity to shock people into a state of outrage.
Post Thu May 28, 2009 10:43 pm
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