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so whats the real deal with guantanamo
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6290
Location: airstrip one
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redball wrote:
No you aren't. You fucking love politics and cannot avoid them. The only other option is that you're completely addicted and can't help yourself. If so, I feel like this forum is an enabler.


Possibly true as well.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 12:48 pm
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6359
Location: http://www.myspace.com/pogopark
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redball wrote:
No you aren't. You fucking love politics and cannot avoid them. The only other option is that you're completely addicted and can't help yourself. If so, I feel like this forum is an enabler.


woah buddy. take a deep breath.

I find politics fascinating, that's for sure. I love them in that sense. And I love them in the sense that "politics" is simply just the content of the relationships humans have with each other. And yeah I'm pretty addicted to following human relationships and the reality they create. Is there something wrong with that?

But no I don't enjoy corruption and injustice and oppression. Cowardice, craven greed, manipulation. These are far more common in our politics than vision and inspiration and honesty and hope and joy. There's nothing more rewarding to me than those great things that humans are capable of, especially when they arise during tough times when it seems easiest to act basely. But it really tears me in half when people fall prey to human failings. I really do hate that. But you gotta hate the bad stuff to love the good stuff as hard as I do.

i see politics as psychology in practice. whether it's the psychology of a senator defending his sense of strength on a level that he doesn't realize no one else understands or cares about. or the psychology of a father who gets angry when his young daughter is petulant, not because of what her petulance means to her but because of what it means to him. or the psychology between an abuser and the object of their abuse. or the psychology of a perpetual failure. or the psychology of the winningest pitcher in baseball who never developed the ability to see his wife as a whole human.

it's all psychology and it's all politics. every decision we make has a political dimension. that fascinates me. it's the same thing that draws me into TV shows and movies or just peoplewatching. it's my favorite thing about life because it is perhaps its least predictable aspect. and by encompassing both our worst failures and our biggest successes, political analysis offers a framework both for understanding and coping with the former and building the latter, bringing it into being. it's the whole kit and caboodle.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 12:57 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1856
Location: Orange County
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i didn't watch his press conference today, but from what i understand (and what i expected) is that he'll use a hybrid type of tribunals where confessions via waterboarding and other torture methods will be accepted. I'm not sure if I'm down with this. I've said in the past, I would lost for all detainees to go through a civilian type trial. but that won't be the case.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 7:07 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
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For fucks sake... I was making a joke at your expense. You didn't have to write the second paragraph, nor edit your post to add two more.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 7:37 pm
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adic



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 727
Location: SJC
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^Ha, although Embryo's response was kinda touching in a way, also a bit much...
Post Thu May 21, 2009 7:52 pm
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adic



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 727
Location: SJC
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I'm feeling Sham in this thread a lot... haven't seen as much action on issues I was hoping to see action on, and have been dissappointed in other areas where I actually had low expectations to begin with...

I am still hopeful on some of the more domestic issues (health care, war on drugs, tax code adjustments), but time will tell...

A bit off topic, but...

One thing close to me right now is corporate outsourcing, and specifically, adjusting the tax codes for corporations in the U.S. operating overseas. There was talk about this a while ago but I haven't heard much since. My take was the plan was to start taxing companies for product shipped by U.S. companies from overseas locations. It seems to me this might actually prevent U.S. companies from outsourcing some manufacturing jobs, which has really hit the Silicon Valley hard lately.

My company is steady outsourcing everything overseas, and I work for a tech company that manufactures highly technical equipment. These are fairly high paying/technical jobs, and generally not being outsourced. The main benefit is tax loopholes. Each machine we ship out of the U.S. costs between 5-30 million dollars. If my company ships these machines out of the U.S. the tax rate is huge, out of Singapore they pay no taxes on the products we sell. There goes the manufacturing jobs...

Initially labor was also cheaper overseas, but the difference between cost of labor in the U.S. and overseas locations is closing quickly, especially in technical fields.

If they close this tax loophole, I'm thinking my company might actually be forced to stop the outsources and bring some jobs back, but maybe they'll just find another loophole...
Post Thu May 21, 2009 8:15 pm
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6359
Location: http://www.myspace.com/pogopark
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redball wrote:
For fucks sake... I was making a joke at your expense. You didn't have to write the second paragraph, nor edit your post to add two more.


hahah. well, total joke fail brah.

sorry i wrote some stuff.


Last edited by Embryo on Thu May 21, 2009 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu May 21, 2009 10:51 pm
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6359
Location: http://www.myspace.com/pogopark
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O2K wrote:
i didn't watch his press conference today, but from what i understand (and what i expected) is that he'll use a hybrid type of tribunals where confessions via waterboarding and other torture methods will be accepted. I'm not sure if I'm down with this. I've said in the past, I would lost for all detainees to go through a civilian type trial. but that won't be the case.


did he really address whether that kind of evidence would be permissable? I'm not sure he did. I missed that part if so.

I really liked what he said today, I found it broadly comforting. He's actually completely right: there is a class of people that it's hard to know what to do with. If we have evidence we can't submit, but know someone is dangerous, how do we release them? yet, how can we hold them without charges? I get the distinct sense that our President is deeply disturbed by the catch 22 he's in, and particularly by the raw injustice of holding people without due process.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 10:54 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
Location: Northern New Jersey
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Embryo wrote:
redball wrote:
For fucks sake... I was making a joke at your expense. You didn't have to write the second paragraph, nor edit your post to add two more.


hahah. well, total joke fail brah.

sorry i wrote some stuff.


Sorry, next time I won't hit so close to home as to trigger your defense gush.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 10:59 pm
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6359
Location: http://www.myspace.com/pogopark
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redball wrote:
Embryo wrote:
redball wrote:
For fucks sake... I was making a joke at your expense. You didn't have to write the second paragraph, nor edit your post to add two more.


hahah. well, total joke fail brah.

sorry i wrote some stuff.


Sorry, next time I won't hit so close to home as to trigger your defense gush.


nah. the gush was one of self-insight. i felt inspired. thank you for that.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 11:16 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6297
Location: the barber of hard truths
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I gotta keep it short right now, but anyone who watched that speech on national security yesterday and walked away with a good feeling wasn't paying much attention. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily scared right now, but I am starting to think that Obama is either in over his head, or has embraced an approach that will enable a return to Republican political prominence. For fuck's sake, he has a filibuster proof majority right now, and he is pandering, not just to Republicans, but to Bush Administration policies! I'm not so sure we're not looking at Carter instead of Clinton. I'm trying to breathe, but I'm worried right now. I watched that speech with a room full of Indians and Bhutanese, and most of them said, "he sounds like Bush." I had to agree.

In the course of that speech, while trying to musically soothe the concerns of both the right and the left (the campaign is over, Barack), he made the following points: A) we will subject gitmo detainees to a flawed justice procedure as "war criminals" despite not making any efforts to prosecute our own officials for the same class of offenses, B) he subscribes to the idea that the government must keep non-sensitive information from the public "for it's own good" (so much for transparency), and C) his administration will continue to use the self-defeating "endless war" rhetoric to describe the US's counter-terrorism efforts. No wonder Dick Cheney was smiling; for the most part Obama has decided to perpetuate some of the worst Bush Administration policies and has decided to make the same ethical and strategic mistakes of every presidency since Lyndon Johnson.

The "Change I can believe in" is what is happening to a candidate that I thought was going to live up to his campaign rhetoric, and is so far placing himself in the worst political position imaginable. It is possible that he is the kind of person who excels at running campaigns, and is not so hot as a leader, because right now he's (like Clinton) refusing to take any strong moral stances and stand tall in the face of the criticism (despite having a 60 percent approval rating and a 60 seat senate majority!), and is setting up the Democratic party as a version of Republican-lite. Perhaps he thinks by capturing the center the Democrats will enjoy a long term majority; I disagree, and am upset that this opportunity may be squandered. I'm trying to to over-react because national security is only one -- albeit a very important -- facet of his presidency, but that speech gave me the chills. It's borderline offensive that he thinks he can smooth talk people, kick up his chin, and tell us all to "relax, it's me" when he's continuing to entrench injustice and war in American culture. Maybe he's not reading the tea leaves, but America is in serious trouble right now, with its economic and political influence declining every day across the globe. Perhaps in the long run that is going to be good for all of us, but in the short-term, this is not the way to address that problem.

If he wants to "change" American politics, he needs to buck up and offer a real alternative instead of trying to make everyone love him.


Last edited by shambhala on Fri May 22, 2009 1:13 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Thu May 21, 2009 11:16 pm
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z-spot22



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 3101
Location: chicago
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waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! politics schmolitics suck a duck nobody gives a fuck
psychology? your mom's psychology
got that one out of a book
what?
you think youre better than me?
well think again cause you just might be
right now there are thousands of people all over the world
right now
so now who you better than son?
shut the fuck up




ok, i didnt mean any of that...towards anybody......i guess thats my first ever attempt at free verse or whatever you fuckin poets call that shit....I SUCK!
if i was gonna battle mikeymikeymotorbikey thats what i would say......and i would LOSE!

there's children starving in indonesia and all i can think about is how much money i got left in my poker stars account, and i really dont care
im on tilt
Post Thu May 21, 2009 11:18 pm
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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shambhala wrote:
I gotta keep it short right now, but (insert 547 words here).
Heh, I know this feeling.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 11:21 pm
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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z-spot22 wrote:
meaning all of humanity....
they are "terrorists"
...
the Catholic Church...
You just listed about 2-4% of humanity maybe.
Post Thu May 21, 2009 11:23 pm
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z-spot22



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 3101
Location: chicago
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Jesse wrote:
z-spot22 wrote:
meaning all of humanity....
they are "terrorists"
...
the Catholic Church...
You just listed about 2-4% of humanity maybe.


would you really like me to list rest of humanity for you? really? you know what the fuck i was talkin about...but i'll just leave it at that

you got me
Post Thu May 21, 2009 11:27 pm
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