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Chomsky on Obama
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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mzehe916



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 4544
Location: Switzerland
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jakethesnake wrote:
mzehe916 wrote:
Disharmony wrote:
Shit, I voted for Obama. I still think out of the two choices I definitely made the right choice. I still have a feeling America's half/half poster boy will turn out to be a lame duck.


There were more than two choices. More than seven choices.


Lets not get into this. There were only 2 choices that made any difference. Voting for the 2%er is a nice gesture and all...


I know...sorry. And ummm, I think you mean .2%ers. And to be fair, it is more than a gesture, and they are more than jesters.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:36 am
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Disharmony



Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 3024
Location: Buried in Minnesota dirt.
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mzehe916 wrote:
Disharmony wrote:
Shit, I voted for Obama. I still think out of the two choices I definitely made the right choice. I still have a feeling America's half/half poster boy will turn out to be a lame duck.


There were more than two choices. More than seven choices.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

edit: hahahahhahaha
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:37 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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3flip wrote:
Sage Francis wrote:
Embryo wrote:
firefly...

...


.

pfftt.



you guys can do that all you want but what is your response to the actual points chomsky is bringing up? if you haven't read that article, its a really good read.


::looks around::

It's sure quite around here.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:41 am
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6359
Location: http://www.myspace.com/pogopark
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3flip wrote:
Sage Francis wrote:
Embryo wrote:
firefly...

...


.

pfftt.



you guys can do that all you want but what is your response to the actual points chomsky is bringing up? if you haven't read that article, its a really good read.


I will read it.

In the meantime, what I was responding to is firefly's hysteria. This is not the Bush administration, and if you don't get that, I don't even know where to start. hence the pfft. also, i pffft'ed because i think it's evident to everyone by now that obama could shit golden balls of justice and firefly would consider it to be a fraud perpetrated by the new world order trying to disguise the fact that his colon is actually an annex of hell created by satan. who burned down the towers.


Last edited by Embryo on Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:40 am
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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Sage Francis wrote:
Embryo wrote:
firefly...

...


.

pfftt.



thirded.

did you people really think he was going to jump into office and become the benevolent omniscient gentle fidel castro you want? not happening. you go on and get to work if you want to see that in your lifetimes. (firefly, aren't you canadian? you all have your own set of problems up there if i'm not mistaken.)

i'm quite pleased with obama's track record on domestic policy overall right now. that's not to say i don't have some issues, but overall i appreciate what we've got at this moment.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:41 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Bottom Line:

These are predictions by, and insight from, Chomsky. It should be acknowledged and respected, but he is no prophet.

It's an improvement on the Bush administration. I doubt McCain would be doing better.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:51 am
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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jakethesnake wrote:
Bottom Line:

These are predictions by, and insight from, Chomsky. It should be acknowledged and respected, but he is no prophet.

It's an improvement on the Bush administration. I doubt McCain would be doing better.


i'm with that. but actually i think there is a great deal to be thrilled about. these guys have a handful of positions that i really object to, like the surveillance strategy (who knows what they're thinking with that), their reluctance to get judgy on the previous administration (i know what they're thinking on this but i think they are underestimating the psychological risks of not taking a good hard look in the rearview mirror), their attitude towards china (as shamb has argued effectively in the past).

everything else pretty much is awesome -- the hugely progressive budget, the consistent introduction of sunshine into the bush admin's dark corners (especially the torture memos), the generalized lack of spin coming from obama's and gibbs' mouth, the openness towards foreign rivals, the mentality towards israel, the way that they engaged with durban and made clear exactly why they didn't participate, the plans for high-speed trains, the money for green development, the push to greenify the federal fleet, etc etc etc. this is good. it's been 3 months. count your blessings and try and push where you feel compelled. but don't ease back on your conspiracy theories. that's completely unhelpful.


Last edited by Embryo on Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:57 am
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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the guy is down in latin america slapping hands with hugo chavez and is singlehandedly ending the narrative of "trickle down" wall street excess. can you give him a fuckin break already. jesus, those two things alone should give him some props.

of course he's not going to sink the financial industry. he never said he would. this is still america...same as it ever was....its on you to make it better. obama is a huge step forward, perhaps the biggest one of our lifetimes.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:00 am
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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yes.

i thought of more too: raising funding for americorps (the amount of good that this one bill will accomplish is really mindboggling), closing guantanamo, ending the torture regime, setting a firm date for withdrawal from iraq, starting to ease the country down from afghanistan by speaking frankly about the situation.

other not so good stuff: increasing forces in afghanistan (highly dubious strategy), kicking don't ask don't tell down the hall (for now).

what's the balance? we should be doing frigging somersaults.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:04 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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I agree with you completely.

Noam Chomsky is the Michael Moore of politics, with a little more academia and a little less troll. Both make great arguments, effectively. Both have necessary viewpoints that should not be ignored. Both focus on a very narrow aspect of a larger situation, and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:04 am
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reverse midas



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
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jakethesnake wrote:
I agree with you completely.

Noam Chomsky is the Michael Moore of politics, with a little more academia and a little less troll. Both make great arguments, effectively. Both have necessary viewpoints that should not be ignored. Both focus on a very narrow aspect of a larger situation, and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt.


no.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:08 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


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Well, I'm convinced.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:09 am
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Stumbleweed



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
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jakethesnake wrote:
Noam Chomsky is the Michael Moore of politics, with a little more academia

Just a little bit... heh.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:09 am
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Alan Hague



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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jakethesnake wrote:
It's an improvement on the Bush administration. I doubt McCain would be doing better.


Of course it is, but that doesn't mean the Obama administration should be above criticism.

Yes, he has done some good things domestically - passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act, expanding health care for children, etc.

But it's obviously a questionable tactic to employ someone to direct the National Economic Council who repealed the regulatory portions of the Glass-Steagall Act.

He (Summers) also has plenty of conflicts of interest which cast doubt over his ability to be an impartial economic adviser:

"Summers has recently come under fire for accepting perks from Citigroup, including free rides on its corporate jet last summer.[31] According to the Wall Street Journal, Larry Summers called Chris Dodd asking him to remove caps on executive pay at firms which have received stimulus money, including Citigroup. [32]

On April 3rd, 2009 Summers came under renewed criticism after it was disclosed that he was paid millions of dollars the previous year by companies which he now has influence over as a public servant. He earned $5 million from the hedge fund D. E. Shaw, and collected $2.7 million in speaking fees from Wall Street companies that received government bailout money.[33]"

Sure, Obama can make the final decision; but if all the advice he receives is skewed toward the interests of the financial sector, then what the hell good is it?
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:16 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


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Ok it's a stretch, but the point still stands. Both are extremists and their views are necessary as long as you acknowledge the bias.

Just like Obama could appoint someone and understand their biases when they are advising him. This isn't Bush. Obama definitely has not proven himself as a pawn yet.
Post Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:16 am
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