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NYT: Obama's War on Terror May Resemble Bush's in Some Areas
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Lusid
http://youtube.com/watch?v=skCV2L0c6K0


Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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Didn't we already have this exact same conversation a few weeks ago?
Post Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:20 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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firefly wrote:
Democracy in Afghanistan? Do you two actually believe that's what this war is about? hahaha come on.

that's not what it's about, but it's part of it. it's not out of good will or anything but it's a lot easier to justify the war and keep the people on your side if you set up at least a marginally legitimate democracy.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:01 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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firefly wrote:
Democracy in Afghanistan? Do you two actually believe that's what this war is about? hahaha come on.


It's about the opium! Our Lizard kings need it to see their invisible jets, so they can fly to the lost city of atlantis, and have orgies with Brad Pitt clones.

Benjamin Button was the first movie made entirely with Brad Pitt clones.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:23 am
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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I have no idea what the war in Afghanistan is about if it's not about keeping Islamic militants and warlords down so that a civil society can grow. The potential seems greater than Iraq, but the obstacles are just as high. If there's some other goal here I hope the President elucidates it very soon.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:37 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11244
Location: MN
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If Afghanistan isn't about building a pipeline through Afghanistan/Pakistan then it's probably about owning stake in where the pipelines are built elsewhere.

Fighting for democracy as the PR campaign under Carter and Ray-gun.

In reality it's likely a resource agenda similar in scope to full control of the Panama Canal.

The problem with covert support of groups like the mujaheddin:

When you support local causes covertly the local population doesn't really know you're backing them. They might have a hint, but when it's a hint that means rumors spread about how the empires are just playing divide and conquer with the local population as pawns. They might be right if the empires just fight there, make some promises and then leave after with no investment in infrastructure and education.

Battle cry democracy when in practice all you're doing is playing wack-a-mole.




You then have thousands of Rambo warriors on your hands.

People still know it's a proxy war even if you keep claiming it's asymmetrical fourth generational warfare.

If the drones raining fire from the sky in Pakistan is any clue, the US is going to make similar mistakes in the future.

Having the ISI as an enemy is a very bad idea and this part of our history is likely going to turn out on some Archduke Franz Ferdinand shit, especially if the economies keep their trajectory.

If economy is bad and some neo-marxism takes root the best distraction if bread and circuses no longer work is enemies abroad and war. That or a pandemic.

On the hush hush will be how mass die offs seem ecologically sound given our current environmental situation.

Thats worst case scenario shit, but Bush was playing into tha scenario long enough it's gonna be hard to break the momentum.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:56 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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futuristxen wrote:
firefly wrote:
Democracy in Afghanistan? Do you two actually believe that's what this war is about? hahaha come on.


It's about the opium! Our Lizard kings need it to see their invisible jets, so they can fly to the lost city of atlantis, and have orgies with Brad Pitt clones.

Benjamin Button was the first movie made entirely with Brad Pitt clones.


It's funny how you equate my rational thinking with some David Icke insane conspiracy theory when it's pretty much common knowledge amongst any credible/intelligent journalist who is covering the war that there are clearly bigger (if not the sole) reasons why they invading Afghanistan. It's also funny how you completely change your opinion on the war now because Obama likes it. Actually, it's more scary then funny.

Here's a good article that discusses the situation in Afghanistan by someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Futurist, I highly suggest reading more newspapers and less Daily show if you want to know what's going on in the world. Most of the disturbing shit going on isn't crazy tin foil hat shit, it's right in front of our eyes.

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/Mirror/M20090219_OPT/2009021901/
(flip to page 10 and read the paragraph with "war on words")
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:59 am
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Alan Hague



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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The most disappointing thing to me out of all this is that the extraordinary rendition program, the indefinite detention of "terrorism suspects," and the use of the state secrets privilege to throw legal challenges out of the courtroom - are all going to continue.

One thing I notice that's usually missing from the news on Afghanistan are the opinions of the Afghan people. What do they want? How do they feel?
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:14 am
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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i alwasy thought afghanistan was about some kinda pipeline

edit, o shit... should read. dan shay mentioned that already. fail
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:18 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Alan Hague wrote:
The most disappointing thing to me out of all this is that the extraordinary rendition program, the indefinite detention of "terrorism suspects," and the use of the state secrets privilege to throw legal challenges out of the courtroom - are all going to continue.


I know. How could people still support Obama after he allows this to continue? Or at least, how are people still on his jock?

Obama nut - "Because he's shutting down Gitmo in a year"
Sane person - "but what about all the other detention camps that the US/Canada are sending people?"
Obama nut - (In one ear and out the other).

If people already form a strong enough opinion in their mind about something they will be blind/deaf to contradictory points. That's the only explanation I could think of for people regurgitating the same rhetoric over and over again. People are even supportive of his mandatory military service! My Aunt the other day at Lunch was like "What's wrong with that? They do that in Europe". But if Bush suggested this, everyone would be up in arms!
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:23 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11244
Location: MN
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firefly wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
firefly wrote:
Democracy in Afghanistan? Do you two actually believe that's what this war is about? hahaha come on.


It's about the opium! Our Lizard kings need it to see their invisible jets, so they can fly to the lost city of atlantis, and have orgies with Brad Pitt clones.

Benjamin Button was the first movie made entirely with Brad Pitt clones.


It's funny how you equate my rational thinking with some David Icke insane conspiracy theory when it's pretty much common knowledge amongst any credible/intelligent journalist who is covering the war that there are clearly bigger (if not the sole) reasons why they invading Afghanistan. It's also funny how you completely change your opinion on the war now because Obama likes it. Actually, it's more scary then funny.



Futurist was obviously being sarcastic.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:33 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Futurist was insinuating that believing the war in Afghanistan was anything other then bringing democracy to troubled people is tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense. Or at least that my opinion is.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:36 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
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http://www.trans-adriatic-pipeline.com/
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:14 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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firefly wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
firefly wrote:
Democracy in Afghanistan? Do you two actually believe that's what this war is about? hahaha come on.


It's about the opium! Our Lizard kings need it to see their invisible jets, so they can fly to the lost city of atlantis, and have orgies with Brad Pitt clones.

Benjamin Button was the first movie made entirely with Brad Pitt clones.


It's funny how you equate my rational thinking with some David Icke insane conspiracy theory when it's pretty much common knowledge amongst any credible/intelligent journalist who is covering the war that there are clearly bigger (if not the sole) reasons why they invading Afghanistan. It's also funny how you completely change your opinion on the war now because Obama likes it. Actually, it's more scary then funny.



futuristxen earlier in the thread wrote:
You can't force your values on someone else. They have to arrive at that place on their own. We've got plenty of failed nation building attempts to back this up all over the world.


You're a tinfoil-hatted dumbass sometimes. I think the war in afghanistan is at best problematic, and at worst a really bad idea.

But I don't need some conspiracy david icke bullshit to have that view.

I've been saying that in several different ways in this very thread. I'm sorry I wasn't explicit enough for your sensibilities.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:10 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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I obviously don't agree that the reason we are there is for a pipeline. I think we are there for idealogical reasons related to our security concerns vis a vis Al-Queda.

Invading either Iraq or Afghanistan simply for oil concerns, seems terribly short sighted, and given the amount of money it has cost and the amount of years it will take to settle either region, seems like a completely ass backwards way to go about things.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:16 pm
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futuristxen



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And to that end, I don't know that you can win ideological wars as an invading force with bombs.
Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:18 pm
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