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MSNBC today (1/17) - Barack Obama's plans for Civil Service
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Lusid
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I don't don't like the idea of mandatory service.
There's difference between feeling the need to serve your community and being forced to.
I always pick up trash on my street, or in park, and have been know to collect it in my neighborhood, but I don't like the idea of being forced to do it.
This plays into the whole mandatory draft concept - 'it's your duty to serve your country.'

Giving an incentive to serve your community is a different story, like the college idea.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:19 pm
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yourREIGNisOVER



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i would believe the incentive is hopefully getting a positive boost out of the economic situation we currently face through mandatory service. plus stuff like the college tax credit.

i'm a college student and i feel like this is something my generation and younger ones definitely need. Whether for tuition costs or just a forceful push to get the fuck outside, stop playing halo 3 and killing your parents, and learning while helping out your community.

what really are the negatives to mandatory community service as long as the expectations aren't outrageous?
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:27 pm
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Lusid
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Economical boost? how do you get that?

When you force someone into doing something, they usually resent it and only do it because they have to. Most likely they're not going to do it on their own once their hours are up.
I think it's a parents job to put their kids outside, or show them love and compassion for the people around.
I understand it's not 'mandatory' for parents to do this, but it just seems like it's addressing the effect and not the cause.
Or maybe it is, and I have it backwards.

I'm just not big on forcing people into anything beyond their will.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:40 pm
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yourREIGNisOVER



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Well regardless, its for ages 18-25 through Emmanuel's plan. You wont have to worry about it, I will.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:59 pm
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Lusid
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The more I think about it the more I feel I'm wrong.
I think the word "mandatory" has been attached to such negative situations that it's natural for me to reject anything with it in the title.

I'm still a little 'eh', but there are some good points made here and I'm seeing a lot of conflicting points within my own opinions.

I still don't get the whole "economical boost" idea though.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:03 pm
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yourREIGNisOVER



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Quote:

From the Obama National Service Fact Sheet:

Encourage national service to address the great challenges of our time, including combating climate
change, extending health care, improving our schools and strengthening America overseas by showing
the world the best of our nation.
Expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots and double the size of the Peace Corps.
Integrate service-learning into our schools and universities to enable students to graduate college with as
many as 17 weeks of service experience under their belts.
Provide new service opportunities for working Americans and retirees.
Expand service initiatives that engage disadvantaged young people and advance their education.
Expand the capacity of nonprofits to innovate and expand successful programs across the country.




Quote:

From AmeriCorps website:

AmeriCorps members address critical needs in communities all across America. As an AmeriCorps member, you can:

Tutor and mentor disadvantaged youth
Fight illiteracy
Improve health services
Build affordable housing
Teach computer skills
Clean parks and streams
Manage or operate after-school programs
Help communities respond to disasters
Build organizational capacity


So just taking that one aspect into account, you're expanding the capabilities of an organization to provide massive labor and paying only $4,750 toward college for a full time year long job. How does saving a lot of money while getting a lot of the internal work that is a huge part of Obama's plan not going to help our economy?

edit- Or a $1200 end of service stipend if you don't go to school.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:31 pm
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The Count



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I'm still not too hot on the idea of a "civil national defense force", at least not until someone explains what that is more fully and why I shouldn't be afraid that they're going to take me from my house in the middle of the night for talking too much e-shit about the president.

But I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of highly incentivized (or even mandatory) community service.

100 hours a year is a whopping 2 hours a week. That's working at a soup kitchen for lunch on Wednesdays. I'll reserve my outrage for something a bit more outrageous.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:53 pm
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sequence



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Happy_ is all like, "Hey, I'm getting super fucking fat from eating all these doughnuts? How come no one told me doughnuts weren't good for me? Oh, there were signs telling me and I didn't read them? Oh, you told me about it and I wasn't listening? Oh, I missed that news story? Well, just so you know, if I don't know about something it CAN'T BE TRUE."

If we based our judgment of politicians on how much the people who voted for them knew about them, we'd be in a sorry state. I knew about this. Clearly a lot of people on this board did. I'm willing to wager that the majority of people who voted for Obama could tell you VERY little about any his policies. That is not a reasonable yardstick against which to measure the policy decisions of an elected official.

Reading your arguments is like watching a Jenga competition at Katherine Hepburn's house.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:08 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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beans.

Last edited by C.R.A.Z.Y on Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:32 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



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some people in this country are so willing to take something for doing nothing but then get mad when asked to do something. i mean for crying out loud, my government sent me a random three hundred dollars in my box and called it a stimulus. and any time i want to i could go to my government in some form or another and ask them to do for me ...vote this way, make a rule for the people, help people here or there, allot finds here or there .i could go and ask of my country many things, but how often does it ask of me? there's still a lot this country could do for us...but funnily i think that's the point...we are this country and we expect it to do better for us, but i think that we, who are it. are asking us to do better for ourselves...and i know not everyone sides and whatnot but fuck em. i'm down.

i think it will be left open so people can choose their own good...and i doubt it would ever be mandatory as in " jailtime " if you don't comply.

i would actually be excited about finally getting a chance to do some kind of overall national organizing like this. it's like obama is takin this out of the community organizers handbooks, flippin it and blowin it up.. it's like when i join campaigns or canvasses we expect a lot of people who care and try to bring in more who do and put them to work on an issue. it has an overall effect in our community gradually, and i think that if that grassroot work ethic was applied to america overall...it would do overall good for america in the long run just like it does for a smaller community when they start a campaign organizing office.

community organizing is good at the micro level, i have seen it...now peep that times 10 billion! that's my hope for change/change for hope.

this stuff makes me smile in my sleep. exponentially.

some people act like obama and his supporters think he is some sort special super man type guy and they make fun of him for it with the whole messiah bit, but i think he is just a regular good smart guy...and i think that in comparison to most previous presidents, he's Real in a way that seems Fake to those who think Fake is Real. and this is part of his real talk. when i say i think he is gonna do all this kinda magical organizing in america, i don't think he is some sort of great savior, like it is joked about, i think to myself...it's about time one of us got put on. a person.

he got a fire under him while community organizing. i can see it in him. he means it. rarely do you ever hear presidents who seem to mean anything. he reminds me of the starry eyed activists that stick around the office and after a while become a changing force conscious of that position. people like that make it be on.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:34 pm
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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i think we can all agree that people like happy_ should have mandatory community service.

happy_, if you can't lift your finger for the greater good for 100 hours a week something is not quite right in your headspace.

also, greencorps has nothing to do with what you just suggested. it's a great organization. upgrade your gray matter, cuz today it may matter.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:42 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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C.R.A.Z.Y wrote:
some people in this country are so willing to take something for doing nothing but then get mad when asked to do something. i mean for crying out loud, my government sent me a random three hundred dollars in my box and called it a stimulus. and any time i want to i could go to my government in some form or another and ask them to do for me ...vote this way, make a rule for the people, help people here or there, allot finds here or there .i could go and ask of my country many things, but how often does it ask of me? there's still a lot this country could do for us...but funnily i think that's the point...we are this country and we expect it to do better for us, but i think that we, who are it. are asking us to do better for ourselves...and i know not everyone sides and whatnot but fuck em. i'm down.

i think it will be left open so people can choose their own good...and i doubt it would ever be mandatory as in " jailtime " if you don't comply.

i would actually be excited about finally getting a chance to do some kind of overall national organizing like this. it's like obama is takin this out of the community organizers handbooks, flippin it and blowin it up.. it's like when i join campaigns or canvasses we expect a lot of people who care and try to bring in more who do and put them to work on an issue. it has an overall effect in our community gradually, and i think that if that grassroot work ethic was applied to america overall...it would do overall good for america in the long run just like it does for a smaller community when they start a campaign organizing office.

community organizing is good at the micro level, i have seen it...now peep that times 10 billion! that's my hope for change/change for hope.

this stuff makes me smile in my sleep. exponentially.

some people act like obama and his supporters think he is some sort special super man type guy and they make fun of him for it with the whole messiah bit, but i think he is just a regular good smart guy...and i think that in comparison to most previous presidents, he's Real in a way that seems Fake to those who think Fake is Real. and this is part of his real talk. when i say i think he is gonna do all this kinda magical organizing in america, i don't think he is some sort of great savior, like it is joked about, i think to myself...it's about time one of us got put on. a person.

he got a fire under him while community organizing. i can see it in him. he means it. rarely do you ever hear presidents who seem to mean anything. he reminds me of the starry eyed activists that stick around the office and after a while become a changing force conscious of that position. people like that make it be on.


YES!
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:48 pm
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happy_
crappy_


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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Lol... i didn't vote for Obama.


Well, enjoy the mandatory public works camps. Many of you have obviously already made your decision on this matter.



I know i am not going to the work camps, and i KNOW there will be a large group of people behind me, real people, behind me.



Let's give it a few months for the TV opinion poll numbers to drop and we can discuss this later.

I pray not, but it seems clear to me that things are going to be getting worse, economically especially.

This "mandatory civil service" is about as neccesary to save the economy as "the patriot act" was to protect us from terrorists.


Let's give it a few months, that is how i see it.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:31 pm
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Sage Francis
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happy_ wrote:
I pray not, but it seems clear to me that things are going to be getting worse, economically especially.



Behold the reluctant prophet that is happy_
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:33 pm
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Lusid
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Embryo wrote:
happy_, if you can't lift your finger for the greater good for 100 hours a week something is not quite right in your headspace.


haha, that's a hell of a typo.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:36 pm
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