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Cops ring in the new year with a senseless killing
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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how about we focus on condemning that police officer and not the bystanders?
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:55 pm
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Sarcastro



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3281
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Stumbleweed wrote:
Jesus fucking christ. No defense for that shit.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:02 pm
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Location: Zoo Town
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I can't watch that with sound and I didn't really see what happened. Could someone explain it a bit better? From the video it just looked like the guy was getting arrested. I didn't see anything that warranted a gun even being drawn.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:06 pm
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Stumbleweed



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 9740
Location: Denver
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Yeah, basically. There looked to be a bit of a struggle as the THREE cops held him to the ground, but then (as he's still being restrained), Fuckface #1 reaches for his gun and fires. I don't know how a man being held down by three trained professionals could be a threat at that point. Indefensible.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:13 pm
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happy_
crappy_


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 117
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Reggie wrote:
how about we focus on condemning that police officer and not the bystanders?



The debate about the morality and guilt of bystanders to crimes is an age old contemplation.

It's something i think we should take very seriously.


Dozens of people just stood there and watch this man get shot.


Though i understand your sentiments, i don't think we should simply stop talking about it.


I'd like to also say, after that fact, that irrational violence is bad from any perspective.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:16 pm
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happy_
crappy_


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 117
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at about 2:34 you can see the lighter skinned officer ripping off a bloody chunk of his head... (it appears)

---

lol... idk, maybe it was just blood on his hand, is a terrible picture. His family's lawyer says ""The bullet went through his lower back, hit the ground and ricocheted through the upper part of his body."

Hmm.


Last edited by happy_ on Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:27 pm
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theodora



Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 429
Location: Boulder, CO
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happy_ wrote:
Reggie wrote:
how about we focus on condemning that police officer and not the bystanders?



The debate about the morality and guilt of bystanders to crimes is an age old contemplation.

It's something i think we should take very seriously.


Dozens of people just stood there and watch this man get shot.


Though i understand your sentiments, i don't think we should simply stop talking about it.


I'd like to also say, after that fact, that irrational violence is bad from any perspective.


I think you're a little confused, or high on your own self-righteousness. Did you watch the video?
This wasn't an execution, or a lynch mob. None of these people had any idea the officer was going to shoot the guy until he actually DID. His gun is out for maybe 2 seconds before he shoots him. Nobody saw that coming.

Tell me, in the ideal situation, what would you have the bystanders do?

Both people turned released their cell phone videos as evidence. That is the best thing they could have done, because it means these officers will probably be convicted.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:27 pm
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Embryo



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6359
Location: http://www.myspace.com/pogopark
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/05/MN0R153LGU.DTL

Quote:

Among other things, BART police are looking into the possibility that the officer who shot Grant thought he was pulling the trigger of a Taser stun gun, according to a person familiar with the investigation.

BART officials declined to say whether the officer was carrying a Taser - a device that sends out two electrical probes and can incapacitate its target - when he shot Grant. The agency uses Tasers but does not have enough of the expensive devices to give one to every officer.

Normally, officers who finish a shift give their Taser to an officer starting a shift. But with so many extra officers working on Wednesday and Thursday in expectation of holiday revelry, there were not enough Tasers to go around.

It is unusual for police officers to mistake their handgun for a Taser, but not unprecedented. Tasers are similar to many guns, with a trigger that must be pulled, a safety device that must be switched off, and laser sighting.

Many Bay Area police departments that use Tasers - including BART - force officers to take precautions, such as wearing them on the opposite side of their strong hand and facing backward. This requires officers to reach across their body to retrieve them.


that would kinda 'splain it. if this is what happened, the guy should be relieved of duty and fined heavily, as well as prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter. if this isn't what happened i think the dude should be institutionalized because he is clearly a psycho.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:41 pm
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happy_
crappy_


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 117
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Hmm, check out this video, much more footage.

people were definately freaking out, mildly at least.


No surprise the video was edited out before going on TV...


Last edited by happy_ on Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:44 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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theodora wrote:
That is the best thing they could have done, because it means these officers will probably be convicted.


Pretty much - I will add, though, that it's the only thing they could have done WHILE ENSURING THEIR OWN SAFETY.

Sure, it would have been nice if a bystander shot that cop in the fucking face - but then she/he would have been killed.

Makes it more of a moral quandary when your own survival is at stake.

But - to be fair, I've argued on your side of this discussion before. The difference was in the type of weapon...before, we were discussing the dude who got decapitated on the bus in Canada. My position was that people should have stepped up, and I still beleive that.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:47 pm
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Sarcastro



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3281
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Embryo wrote:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/05/MN0R153LGU.DTL

Quote:

Among other things, BART police are looking into the possibility that the officer who shot Grant thought he was pulling the trigger of a Taser stun gun, according to a person familiar with the investigation.

BART officials declined to say whether the officer was carrying a Taser - a device that sends out two electrical probes and can incapacitate its target - when he shot Grant. The agency uses Tasers but does not have enough of the expensive devices to give one to every officer.

Normally, officers who finish a shift give their Taser to an officer starting a shift. But with so many extra officers working on Wednesday and Thursday in expectation of holiday revelry, there were not enough Tasers to go around.

It is unusual for police officers to mistake their handgun for a Taser, but not unprecedented. Tasers are similar to many guns, with a trigger that must be pulled, a safety device that must be switched off, and laser sighting.

Many Bay Area police departments that use Tasers - including BART - force officers to take precautions, such as wearing them on the opposite side of their strong hand and facing backward. This requires officers to reach across their body to retrieve them.


that would kinda 'splain it. if this is what happened, the guy should be relieved of duty and fined heavily, as well as prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter. if this isn't what happened i think the dude should be institutionalized because he is clearly a psycho.



this makes A LOT of sense. Because if you watch the guy he does it too casually, so unless he's some cold blooded killer he made a horrible horrible mistake.

A mistake he should still be convicted for, but with a greater lean towards stupidity (manslaughter) rather than malice (murder).
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:54 pm
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theodora



Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 429
Location: Boulder, CO
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MessiahCarey wrote:
theodora wrote:
That is the best thing they could have done, because it means these officers will probably be convicted.


Pretty much - I will add, though, that it's the only thing they could have done WHILE ENSURING THEIR OWN SAFETY.

Sure, it would have been nice if a bystander shot that cop in the fucking face - but then she/he would have been killed.

Makes it more of a moral quandary when your own survival is at stake.

But - to be fair, I've argued on your side of this discussion before. The difference was in the type of weapon...before, we were discussing the dude who got decapitated on the bus in Canada. My position was that people should have stepped up, and I still beleive that.


Oh, I am completely in agreement with you about the Greyhound bus incident. You agree, though, that there is a difference between fifteen or twenty people on a bus stopping a psychotic with a knife, versus fifteen or twenty people (many of whom look like teenagers) coming at three or four cops, including one with a gun he obviously won't hesitate to use?

I think happy_ has a valid point but, in this case, it's moot. The guy was unexpectedly shot and killed. What do you do in this situation? I suppose you can hurl yourself at the officer and become a martyr against police brutality, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to judge the bystanders for "not doing enough" here. There was no reason for them to involve themselves in the situation BEFORE the guy got shot, and none of them could have telepathically known one of the cops would snap.

Now, the bus incident, and the woman who was stabbed in NYC with all her neighbors watching (and no one calling 911) . . . that is different.
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:00 pm
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happy_
crappy_


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 117
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Ok first of all... the police were clearly manhandling the young guys, racially profiling them and probably searching them for drugs unjustly based on unjust laws. This type of stuff happens frequently. You can see in the video i posted above, people are yelling and protesting against the cops violent behavior BEFORE he even shoots the guy.

Sadly, (if the guy's story is true) someone got shot while wirecuffed on the ground instead of being tased. hah... wow
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:15 pm
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Dj Mayonnaise



Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 781
Location: Maine
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happy_ wrote:
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Hmm, check out this video, much more footage.

people were definately freaking out, mildly at least.


No surprise the video was edited out before going on TV...


@ 3:35 it looks like some kid hit a cop or threw something at them at least. there's your retaliation i guess...
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:53 pm
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Lusid
http://youtube.com/watch?v=skCV2L0c6K0


Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Dr. Pepperland
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"BART police are looking into the possibility that the officer who shot Grant thought he was pulling the trigger of a Taser stun gun"

Oh. This changes everything.
I can see why the restrained guy lying face down beneath two cops needed zapped with a potentially fatal level of high voltage electricity, but not shot!

For once could the police department take responsibility for it's actions without trying to justify them with some lame excuse?
(Not that it would change what happened, but it would at least keep the salt out of the wound)
Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:19 pm
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