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the LA spoken word show. 9/5/07
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Strange Famous Forum > Old Shows. Come meet the ghost of performance past.

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beliberated



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Location: southern california
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MessiahCarey wrote:
beliberated wrote:
i guess i just don't see why sex has to be included in every. single. discussion/joke/sentence/word structure.


You really don't see why it happens?

Or you wish it was different?

Sex is huge to animals (including humans) because we're biologically wired to experience an orgasm as the best thing ever. It's not complicated.


except we're not animals. we're humans. with capabilites and brain capacities far superior to animals.
i'm not saying there isn't a time or place for sex and all it has to offer, but i just find it so redundant that it gets brought up in just about everything. honestly, even in this form, there aren't many threads that don't have SOME reference to sex/women/women's body parts...
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:37 pm
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Stumbleweed



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 9740
Location: Denver
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I haven't been here as long as some other people, but I'm pretty sure we talk more about balls and ballsac-related issues than we talk about breasts or vaginas.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:40 pm
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kese



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 5454
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beliberated wrote:
MessiahCarey wrote:
beliberated wrote:
i guess i just don't see why sex has to be included in every. single. discussion/joke/sentence/word structure.


You really don't see why it happens?

Or you wish it was different?

Sex is huge to animals (including humans) because we're biologically wired to experience an orgasm as the best thing ever. It's not complicated.


except we're not animals. we're humans. with capabilites and brain capacities far superior to animals.
i'm not saying there isn't a time or place for sex and all it has to offer, but i just find it so redundant that it gets brought up in just about everything. honestly, even in this form, there aren't many threads that don't have SOME reference to sex/women/women's body parts...


umm.. first and foremost we're animals:
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens
Subspecies: H. s. sapiens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

And since my brain is a little more evolved...I say if i'm about to die.. give me some peyote and then play with my peepee. Cause at it's simplest, at least for me...that's what Earth's about. Hopefully by then I'll be able to have done almost everything else I wanted to.

BTW... I wish i had a chance to see the show.
How'd the video come out?
And another DVD?!!!
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:43 pm
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tom inhaler
me too!


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4398
Location: providence
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beliberated wrote:
i guess i just don't see why sex has to be included in every. single. discussion/joke/sentence/word structure.


you brought it up though. it was part of his performance. just like a song or whatever.

i think it's more evolved to have honest, open discussions about sex than to avoid it/be afraid to talk about it.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:48 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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beliberated wrote:
except we're not animals. we're humans.


Well, humans are actually animals.

Also, dolphins and dodo birds both have sex for pleasure and there is evidence to suggest that there are social structures that surround (or surrounded in the case of the dodo) this sexual existence they have.

But that's tangential, since we ARE animals. Believe that.


Quote:

with capabilites and brain capacities far superior to animals.


I disagree on both counts. What constitutes the "capacity" of a brain? Animals have brains that can recount smells I'll never even experience. Just because we've figured out how to use our opposable thumbs does not make me or you superior (hence my opposition to the concept of factory farming and such) to the cats at my house that always seem to intuitively know when I'm about to cry for reasons humans may never understand.


Quote:

i'm not saying there isn't a time or place for sex and all it has to offer, but i just find it so redundant that it gets brought up in just about everything.


You know, I sort of agree in a sense. But I know WHY it happens. It's because we love sex because orgasms (or not even, just trying is fun enough!) and the intimacy we receive from trying to shove our bodies back together feels amazing.


Quote:

honestly, even in this form, there aren't many threads that don't have SOME reference to sex/women/women's body parts...


Right. And it's a testament to how important sex is in our lives. I know you don't want it to be - but it is. I'm sorry.

I know you mentioned women and their body parts specifically, and I appreciate where you're coming from and the check you're trying to provide. I will just offer the notion that women and their body parts are probably the subject of sexual talk more often than not because the demographic of this board consists of mostly (but not entirely) straight males. Not that males appreciate sex any less or more than females...but that's who's here. Ironically, the award for "most suggestive sexual comments" has GOT to go to Marge, but that's niether here nor there, really.

If we had a board full of Marges to talk about hot garbage and what women want sexually, I have a feeling we'd have as much mention of cocks as we do anything else.

You're also on the forum of a poet/lyricist. So we all love wordplay, and double meanings and alliteration and jokes (sp?) work very well with sex as the core since it is such a universal subject. I mean...it's like biblical references in music...I don't dig that "Hallellujah" by Cohen is a huge metaphor for a biblical story - but it's still AMAZING how he draws the metaphor and all the MORE powerful because we can all recognize the story he's drawing from. While I admittedly don't know the piece you're speaking on (or just banter, I dunno), I can definitely say that some of Sage's SHINING successess in the literary sense can be attributed to how he explores the human condition and all of its ins and outs (so to speak)...sex is something we can all understand, so it will resonate more than just about any other topic.


Last edited by MessiahCarey on Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:59 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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tom inhaler wrote:
i think it's more evolved to have honest, open discussions about sex than to avoid it/be afraid to talk about it.


By. Far.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:08 pm
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beliberated



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Location: southern california
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i speak my mind, therefore, i just have to express how i feel.

and we are classified in the kingdom as animalia because the other options are plants, bacteria, fungus and algae. but, i mean, it's completely safe and logical to assume we're a more intelligent breed than animals...or else about 90% of the things that go on in our lives need to be taken out for us to be comparable.

i understand the nature of this board and that the majority are straight males...but i am not a male and therefore my opinion may form differently. the knowledge i'm accumulated and the opinions i've formed lead to me to express that i'm just tired of almost everything i am exposed to has to relate back to a penis or sex or "boning" or whatever. it just frusterates me.

and i am, by no means, saying it's bad to have an open discussion about sex! i'm not that crazy. i understand it's a huge part of life and though i, myself, have never experienced sex...i understand how critical it is. but my point is that why must it be beaten to death in almost every topic.

i don't know what it's like to be a dude. so maybe i'm missing out on some crazy feeling that would cause me to encorporate it in almost everything i talked about.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:03 pm
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beliberated



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Location: southern california
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tom inhaler wrote:
beliberated wrote:
i guess i just don't see why sex has to be included in every. single. discussion/joke/sentence/word structure.


you brought it up though. it was part of his performance. just like a song or whatever.

i think it's more evolved to have honest, open discussions about sex than to avoid it/be afraid to talk about it.


i brought it up because i was pointing out something. obviously to debate something, it'll perpetuate the topic.

i understand it was part of the show, but so was the "butt-plug" or something he discussed where you build up fecal matter while engaging in anal sex.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:07 pm
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m hanora
Holy Mary Mother of Pwn.


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1235
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tom inhaler wrote:
i think it's more evolved to have honest, open discussions about sex than to avoid it/be afraid to talk about it.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:17 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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beliberated wrote:
i speak my mind, therefore, i just have to express how i feel.


And don't stop! :) It's how we do around here.


Quote:

and we are classified in the kingdom as animalia because the other options are plants, bacteria, fungus and algae. but, i mean, it's completely safe and logical to assume we're a more intelligent breed than animals...or else about 90% of the things that go on in our lives need to be taken out for us to be comparable.


I disagree, and explained why in my last post.

However, to expound, I believe that regardless of our "level" of intelligence we are still "wired" to have orgasms feel good. Therefore, once we experience them, we will naturally try and do it again. It's built in. There's nothing you can do about it except fight against the natural desires that happen within our bodies as a result of a chemical reality that occurs in our body. Of course, we DO already fight very much against these desires in the attempt to be "civilized" (i.e. humans don't fuck other humans against their will like animals do, etc.) - but to ignore the physiological REALITY that our bodies CRAVE sex (and have EVOLVED to do so, in order to perpetuate the species) is something I believe to be a little irrational.


Quote:

i understand the nature of this board and that the majority are straight males...but i am not a male and therefore my opinion may form differently.


Of course! There's a crew of females here that lay it down regularly, and you're in wonderful company.


Quote:

the knowledge i'm accumulated and the opinions i've formed lead to me to express that i'm just tired of almost everything i am exposed to has to relate back to a penis or sex or "boning" or whatever. it just frusterates me.


I understand that. That's what I said before...I don't get frustrated at ANY mention of sex, but at times I definitely get frustrated at boring, run-of-the-mill sex jokes.


Quote:

and i am, by no means, saying it's bad to have an open discussion about sex! i'm not that crazy. i understand it's a huge part of life and though i, myself, have never experienced sex...i understand how critical it is.


Oh.

Now I get it. I'd be interested in knowing if you're celibate for religious, personal or physiological reasons, but that's very personal and not everyone is as open about such things as I am. So know I'm wondering, but don't feel obligated to answer.

It DOES however give me a perspective on where you are coming from. Or not coming from, as it were.

If you've never had sex, I don't think there's any way you can understand why it's so pervasive amongst those of us who have. Just like I'll never understand a junkie's need for heroin or a smoker's need for cigarettes.


Quote:

but my point is that why must it be beaten to death in almost every topic.


It's a decent point. But I answered that for you. "Why must it be beaten to death?" "Because intimacy is one of the most important thing in the world to most people and sex is the most extreme indicator of intimacy."


Quote:

i don't know what it's like to be a dude. so maybe i'm missing out on some crazy feeling that would cause me to encorporate it in almost everything i talked about.


As far I know, it's not a male-specific phenomenon. Not in my circle of friends, anyway. I would say that 90% of the women in my life certainly wouldn't mind an orgasm to be the last thing they experienced. Then again, a good deal of women don't experience a fraction of the orgasms that men do (according to some shit I read, anyway).
Post Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:30 pm
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kayla
cutie n3wb


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 522
Location: lake charles, la
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the term "boning" is so great. i don't hear it nearly as much as i'd like to.
Post Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:49 pm
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beliberated



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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Location: southern california
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Of course, we DO already fight very much against these desires in the attempt to be "civilized" (i.e. humans don't fuck other humans against their will like animals do, etc.)


ummmm, except that happens nearly every day in nearly every country of the world? women (and men too!) are raped against their wills every minute. and, who knows, perhaps we could attribute to the rising rate of rape cases in the US because we are bombarded by sex in the media (which then gets taken to our homelives/schoolives/worklives) every time we turn on the channel? this is exactly what i'm arguing.




Quote:

Oh.

Now I get it. I'd be interested in knowing if you're celibate for religious, personal or physiological reasons, but that's very personal and not everyone is as open about such things as I am. So know I'm wondering, but don't feel obligated to answer.

It DOES however give me a perspective on where you are coming from. Or not coming from, as it were.

If you've never had sex, I don't think there's any way you can understand why it's so pervasive amongst those of us who have. Just like I'll never understand a junkie's need for heroin or a smoker's need for cigarettes.


no, no, no. you don't get to say, "now i get it" because i'm a virgin. and please, don't compare it to a heroin junkie. that's a bit dramatic. i've experienced things of a sexual nature without engaging in intercourse.

i'm not arguing that sex is bad or shouldn't be included in daily discussion. without having it, i UNDERSTAND how important it is to lives and how amazing/crazy/wonderful it can be! after all, the purpose of it is to reproduce. THAT'S ANIMALISTIC. animals don't use the morning-after pill or spermicide to enjoy it so they don't reproduce. they merely engage in it as an urge to keep their species alive. but in american culture, that's not it's sole purpose.

i have no problem talking about why i dont have sex. i dont like the idea of religion because everything gets judgemental and the point of it gets so incredibly disregarded because everyone just wants to point fingers at their neighbor instead of loving them. i only associate myself with God. and i don't have sex not because there is a bible that says not to...but because i feel in my heart that i would like to be in a forever-committed (hopefully) relationship.
i dont frown upon people that makes other choices- that's their decisions and as long as they're doing it a mature, healthy manner...i really don't give a crap.
Post Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:15 pm
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freddy freidghart



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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I would go as far as to say my first girlfriend probably dumped me because i wasn't that good at sex; therefore sex is quite important because I loved the fuck out of her.
Post Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:17 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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beliberated wrote:
ummmm, except that happens nearly every day in nearly every country of the world? women (and men too!) are raped against their wills every minute.


Absolutely - women and men are definitely raped. However, it's not - by and large - our typical courting ritual. I like to think you know what I meant.


Quote:

who knows, perhaps we could attribute to the rising rate of rape cases in the US because we are bombarded by sex in the media (which then gets taken to our homelives/schoolives/worklives) every time we turn on the channel? this is exactly what i'm arguing.


No, it hasn't been what you were arguing - but now that it is, we can go there.

I would not agree that rape is perpetuated by media image ENTIRELY, but I will definitely agree that its pervasiveness could be a factor in already unhealthy people having even more unhealthy opinions. I don't think that mysogony is new. I think there's a VERY VERY long history of disgusting mysogony...and unless you're including the Bible, the Torah and the Quran as "the media", then I think it's a little innaccurate pin rape on "the media".

Now, where I DO agree is slightly more subtle...and well...may not be "agreeing" to you.

I believe that the media portrays an UNHEALTHY version of sex, and that unhealthy version of sex they portray perpetuates unhealthy views of sex. But I think that the media is a reflection of opinions regarding sex that are older than the concept of G-d "him"self, not the fundamental starting point for those shitty opinions.


Quote:


Quote:

Oh.

Now I get it. I'd be interested in knowing if you're celibate for religious, personal or physiological reasons, but that's very personal and not everyone is as open about such things as I am. So know I'm wondering, but don't feel obligated to answer.

It DOES however give me a perspective on where you are coming from. Or not coming from, as it were.

If you've never had sex, I don't think there's any way you can understand why it's so pervasive amongst those of us who have. Just like I'll never understand a junkie's need for heroin or a smoker's need for cigarettes.


no, no, no. you don't get to say, "now i get it" because i'm a virgin. and please, don't compare it to a heroin junkie. that's a bit dramatic. i've experienced things of a sexual nature without engaging in intercourse.



Well...I've never shot up, I only snorted the shit once...so I can't say with any certainty how being a junkie feels, but I know when I tried heroin it was like a braingasm. I don't think it's a bit dramatic - or at the very least any more dramatic than you insinuating that TV commercials cause rape. ;-)

Just like me with heroin - some people think sex is good to stay away from, for a slew of very good reasons, but I think they still understand that it's an interest of many and...more importantly to what we're discussing here...WHY it's important to sooooo many people.


Quote:


i'm not arguing that sex is bad or shouldn't be included in daily discussion. without having it, i UNDERSTAND how important it is to lives and how amazing/crazy/wonderful it can be!


Not fully, but I do believe that you can understand it's importance from that side of the fence to a certain extent. But you clearly DON'T understand how important it is if you're questioning why an artist, who largely discusses personal issues, is bringing it into their set - or why afterwards we are ready, willing, and eager to discuss the finer (or more vulgar) points of sex, jerking off and death. If you truly understand how amazing/crazy/wonderful it can be, you would have never asked the question that started this whole thing! That's my point.


Quote:

after all, the purpose of it is to reproduce. THAT'S ANIMALISTIC.


Well, no. The point of sex is enjoyment if you ask me. But that's just me. You'll clearly give a different answer. So will dolphins and some monkeys...they'll argue tooth and nail (or fin and tail...whatever) that they have sex just for fun, and there's definitely some science to suggest that is the case.

Even still, we ARE animalistic in nature. And we DO desire sex fundamentally for reproducing (which is why both men and women tend to find a fundamental set of traits desirable in either direction, although there's a great deal of variety in that now). However, we have put a lot of restraints on those desires. My grander point would be to say that the repression of those desires will eventually cause a giant sexual backlash that will cause more rapes than television, religious texts and hard drugs combined could ever hope to achieve. Who knows, though.


Quote:

animals don't use the morning-after pill or spermicide to enjoy it so they don't reproduce. they merely engage in it as an urge to keep their species alive. but in american culture, that's not it's sole purpose.


"American Culture" is NOT where the objectification of women starts OR stops. It's one of the oldest institutions in the world. But avoiding sex discussion is certainly not how we're going to fight it.


Quote:

i have no problem talking about why i dont have sex. i dont like the idea of religion because everything gets judgemental and the point of it gets so incredibly disregarded because everyone just wants to point fingers at their neighbor instead of loving them. i only associate myself with God. and i don't have sex not because there is a bible that says not to...but because i feel in my heart that i would like to be in a forever-committed (hopefully) relationship.


This is a little confusing.

What I think you're trying to say here is that you don't believe in the Bible necessarily as the arbiter of what G-d believes, but you have a personal relationship with the entity or concept that you believe to be G-d. Based on that assumption, you would have no religious reason to reject sex. Which is good - because if you were insinuating that commercials objectify women (as many many many do), then it seems incongruent to believe in the tenets of the Bible which are demonstrably anti-woman. So that makes a little bit of sense to me.

You feel in your heart that you want to be in a fully committed relationship before experiencing sex. As unwise as that is (you're going to spend your whole sexual existence, without even knowing what it consists of, with one person that you MAY not even be compatible with sexually? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me), I totally respect the level of self-discipline it requires to achieve and encourage you to keep on keepin' with WHATEVER you want to do sexually...including discussing it's downsides. Likewise, I and others will continue to keep on keepin' on and extolling its virtues. ;-)


Quote:

i dont frown upon people that makes other choices- that's their decisions and as long as they're doing it a mature, healthy manner...i really don't give a crap.


Word up. Something we can agree on! :)


Last edited by MessiahCarey on Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:19 pm
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kayla
cutie n3wb


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 522
Location: lake charles, la
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boning.
Post Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:52 pm
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