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I was attacked by the socialite PC mob today...
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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stffuyaysb



Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 20
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Yea, that's exactly my point. They don't really care to push the issue, they just want something else besides NHS on their resume for colleges. "Oh this person cares for people! Neat!"

And last I checked, actively participating in Buy Nothing Day was doing something, namely, not buying anything :)

I wonder how much sales were lost to the companies??
Post Mon Dec 02, 2002 10:55 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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I should not have brought that up again.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:18 am
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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If you enjoy racial backlash and an increase in discrimination, by all means support quotas. Best of luck with the retroactive platform. Perhaps when djdee learns how to comprehend the typed symbols which stand for characters in the english language, I will have to stop responding.

Regards.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:12 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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djdee2005 wrote:

2. Enlarging the pool of applicants is only a half solution. The fact is that many businesses are "old boy" organizations - I.E. they will only hire whites, oftentimes..



Speak for yourself, prolifik.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:08 am
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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prolifik wrote:
A.A. that enlarges the applicant pool in order to create an equal playing field can and will not work overnight. In fact, nothing works overnight, i.e. women's rights, civil rights, etc. Given time, equal opportunity A.A. will be be proactive, and won't cause the backlash of radical Affirmative Action.



"Spoken for myself."
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:23 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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But by saying that, you aren't anwering what I posted....how do you suggest we take care of the fact that whites tend to hire whites, whether or not the black applicant is more qualified?
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 3:04 pm
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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Actually, what I typed does answer your little question about discrimination. The result of practical Affirmative Action will be a more diverse work force, which in turn causes a decrease in racism and discrimination. But like I said, this won't happen overnight. Forms of Affirmative Action that are based on quotas and preferences wind up causing an increase in racial tension and bigotry, and thus are not the ideal way to accomplish the goal of ending discrimination.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:35 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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You're missing the point. There is ALREADY "affirmative action" in place for whites. Whites hire whites. (in general.) They already have that advantage. Affirmative action is an attempt to fix that. Enlarging the applicant pool will not cause people to be any less racist.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:16 pm
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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For the umpteenth time, enlarging the applicant pool will indeed create a more diverse workforce over time, which reduces discrimination and racism. Your argument basically consists of "all whites are racist, and giving more blacks opportunities won't do anything." This would be true if every business and school functioned on racism, but since that isn't reality, then enlargint the pool of applicants will indeed see more blacks fill more positions in the work force. Quotas accomplish the exact opposite because whites hold resentment towards minorities who were less qualified but chosen over them, and the problem of discrimination becomes much much worse.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:29 pm
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Estella



Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 28
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Damn you two are entertaining
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:08 pm
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Sarcastro



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3281
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I think the only way that it would really work, although it would take a very long time, would be to give minorities some breaks or encorougement at the base level, for example in education. Either encourage them to strive for university and higher educations and thus allow them to be as competent or more competent than the other applicants for the job. An example of this would be the way feminism encouraged women to advance and strive to succeed in the workplace (although there are certain differences). Also if the government helped out, for example gave minorities more financial aid for post secondary education, I believe Canada does this with its native population to try and give them a chance to leave the reservations.

However, this method is extremly slow in fully achieving a "level playfield", just look at women in the workplace. Men still make up the majority of higher paying management jobs, and on average women still only make about 70 cents to a mans dollar, but thats a much better number than 50 some cents back in 1960. So basically the only way that you can "level the playfield" (I hate that term) while not causing the backlash that afermitive action causes the already working majority (white males) would be this method.

Theres an intresting article by Jan Narveson that deals with these topics, it's called "Have We a Right to Non-Discrimination". Although it doesn't touch on all these topics, it does give his theory, which is an intresting one, although very argueable. I in fact didn't agree with Narveson but it raised a lot of questions.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:34 pm
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Soul Khansenses



Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 2110
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stffuyaysb wrote:
Yea, that's exactly my point. They don't really care to push the issue, they just want something else besides NHS on their resume for colleges. "Oh this person cares for people! Neat!"

And last I checked, actively participating in Buy Nothing Day was doing something, namely, not buying anything :)

I wonder how much sales were lost to the companies??


You didn't make a dent, you self-aggrandizing dunce. Maybe these people who were so appalled by your insistence upon not wearing a ribbon really cared about this.

Note, just as you don't have a grasp on the nearly nonexistent impact of "Buy Nothing Day," you cannot assume that you've correctly gauged their commitment to the effort to combat AIDS unless you ask these people.

Oh, and in a country where we've never issued anything resembling an apology for any atrocity in history, I LOVE affirmative action.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:42 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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prolifik wrote:
For the umpteenth time, enlarging the applicant pool will indeed create a more diverse workforce over time, which reduces discrimination and racism. Your argument basically consists of "all whites are racist, and giving more blacks opportunities won't do anything." This would be true if every business and school functioned on racism, but since that isn't reality, then enlargint the pool of applicants will indeed see more blacks fill more positions in the work force. Quotas accomplish the exact opposite because whites hold resentment towards minorities who were less qualified but chosen over them, and the problem of discrimination becomes much much worse.


HOW DOES ENLARGING THE APPLICANT POOL MAKE IT MORE DIVERSE IF MOST WHITES STILL PREFER TO HIRE WHITE WORKERS?
Its not like there is a shortage of whites who want to work. Blacks will CONTINUE to be passed over unless you have SOME sort of program in place that has hiring quotas. And I'm sorry, but MANY, many business still have racist policies.....people will not voluntarily desegregate the workforce.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:18 pm
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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Most schools and businesses do not discriminate against minorities, but when the whites vastly outnumber the minorities, then obviously more whites will get jobs than the minorities. Hence, when you make the white to minority ratio equal, more minorities are chosen. If discrimination is occuring at a specific place, yes quotas would ensure that minorities were accepted, but I find it hard to believe that you're a such complete imbecile that you haven't read a single word I've said about resentment and a backlash. I don't think that an increase in discrimination is exactly desirable by anybody. The bottom line is that over time, fair competition that isn't based on quotas and preferences is the only way.
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:39 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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I've read what you've said about backlash, and I think it is irrelevent. If some people are going to be assholes about it, then they have a problem to begin with...the problem isn't cause by affirmative action.
Once again, I never claimed everyone was racist...nor do I think that it is always intentional discrimination. Everyone has an in....whites being in power, whites have more ins....if you get what I'm saying. In other words, what about the resentment that people feel towards the boss' son getting a job at the company?
Post Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:51 pm
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