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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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You're missing the point of what I'm saying. Gun control is necessary. Necessary. Have you seen bowling for columbine? Are you aware that you are more likely to kill a family member with a gun than a "home invader"? If the army decides to make this a police state, a hand gun isn't going to protect you. You will not be able to form a militia. I don't even want to get rid of guns totally, but this country needs to do something, because it is quite clear that we can't handle them ourselves.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:15 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19362
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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Shane, you basically summer up nicely why I can't be anti-gun in clear conscience. I despise guns, but I try to explain to people, that the people need to be able to put up an armed restitance, not now maybe, but it could happen in the future.

Generally, though, this only invokes laughter.

Anyhow, just wanted to say that. Been missing reading your posts.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:16 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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The first thing an invading regime does is disarm the public. Guns aren't nice but they aren't going away...and a person without a gun is at a severe disadvantage to those that do.

Gun control is a pleasant phrase but if these controls are going to be handed down to the public from the government then it can't work.

This is the very reason why we should not ascribe moral values to innate objects. No government in the world should be allowed to regulate what its people do with their bodies.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:00 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Whoa, a buncha liberatarians up in here....

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. And again, I'm not saying that we should get rid of guns completely. But gun control is a neccessity - gun violence in this country is at epidemic proportions. And if the government decides to make this a police state, a 9mm isn't going to help you.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:08 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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Okay, explain what kinds of gun control we can have without severely curtailing our ability to defend ourselves.

A 9MM can do a whole lot more than nothing at all.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:15 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Defending ourselves from WHAT?


If the army decides to come in and make this a police state, handguns won't do shit.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:21 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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djdee2005 wrote:
Whoa, a buncha liberatarians up in here....


Actually...I vote and am registered Green. "Gun control" is usually where I am at odds with their platform.

djdee2005 wrote:
But gun control is a neccessity - gun violence in this country is at epidemic proportions.


Compared to WHOM!?!

djdee2005 wrote:
And if the government decides to make this a police state, a 9mm isn't going to help you.


Of course not, but 200 million cats with 9mm's could certainly deter a police state longer than 200 unarmed pieces of fodder.

See...I agree that guns are a problem. I just disagree on the solution. How does "gun control" keep the average inner city cat (the people who are more apt, statistically, to use it) from copping a weapon?

"Gun control" can only be employed on law abiding citizens that try and obtain weapons legally with permits, etc. Most of those people don't commit crimes or kill anyone with their weapons anyway, so the administration of these things becomes yet another government expense that could be used for social programs....more "gun control" = more federal employees = more money out of my pocket that should be going to feed those unlucky enough to be born where they can't find jobs, etc...maybe even a universal healthcare system or something. ;-)

Peace,
Shane
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:23 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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MessiahCarey wrote:


Compared to WHOM!?!




Well, compared to every other "civilized" country on the planet. But I'm not comparing anyway. Its just at epidemic numbers...too many people dying by gunshots.

MessiahCarey wrote:

Of course not, but 200 million cats with 9mm's could certainly deter a police state longer than 200 unarmed pieces of fodder.

See...I agree that guns are a problem. I just disagree on the solution. How does "gun control" keep the average inner city cat (the people who are more apt, statistically, to use it) from copping a weapon?

"Gun control" can only be employed on law abiding citizens that try and obtain weapons legally with permits, etc. Most of those people don't commit crimes or kill anyone with their weapons anyway, so the administration of these things becomes yet another government expense that could be used for social programs....more "gun control" = more federal employees = more money out of my pocket that should be going to feed those unlucky enough to be born where they can't find jobs, etc...maybe even a universal healthcare system or something. ;-)

Peace,
Shane



Are you aware of where the "average inner city cat" gets his guns? From people who bought guns LEGALLY. Its not like there's somebody smuggling all these guns into the country. They're already HERE. The onyl way to keep guns out of the inner city (or other poor areas....it always seems the city is the target, but its a problem in poor rural areas as well) is to not buy guns anywhere else.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:44 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Location: Queens, NYC
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People are equipped with a hell of a lot more than just handguns these days. If there ever was a civil war in the U.S. you'd see what people are stockpiling. I have seen some crazy shit stashed in people's basements.

But you know, all of this is part of a far-reaching propaganda campaign to make people want to give up their right to bear arms. Little Billy finds his dad's handgun in the nightstand and blows his sister's head off--and we're supposed to blame the gun, not the neglectful parent.
Some disenfranchised outcast teenagers spray up a high school, and we're supposed to blame the guns, not the brutal system of popularity enforced by students and teachers alike.
We can't comprehend what a gun would do against the U.S. Military's awesome might, because we can no longer comprehend banding together to fight a common enemy. We fear our own neighbor--because they might have guns.

It's fucked up, I know.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:48 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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djdee2005 wrote:
Are you aware of where the "average inner city cat" gets his guns? From people who bought guns LEGALLY. Its not like there's somebody smuggling all these guns into the country. They're already HERE. The onyl way to keep guns out of the inner city (or other poor areas....it always seems the city is the target, but its a problem in poor rural areas as well) is to not buy guns anywhere else.


You're wrong about this. Most guns in America's inner-city have come from U.S. Military stockpiles.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:51 am
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tinkleDRINKER



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 788
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mahatma gandhi,
although there is no evidence to support that there is such thing as a bloodless revolution; there has been a sucessful attempt at dismissing a government without the use of violence.

It all depends on what the citizens choose! if the power no longer resides in us then it is already a police state.

jay
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:53 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Reggie wrote:

You're wrong about this. Most guns in America's inner-city have come from U.S. Military stockpiles.


What?! Where do you get that information? Do you have a source? How on earth do they get access to military stockpiles?
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:05 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Reggie wrote:
People are equipped with a hell of a lot more than just handguns these days. If there ever was a civil war in the U.S. you'd see what people are stockpiling. I have seen some crazy shit stashed in people's basements.

But you know, all of this is part of a far-reaching propaganda campaign to make people want to give up their right to bear arms. Little Billy finds his dad's handgun in the nightstand and blows his sister's head off--and we're supposed to blame the gun, not the neglectful parent.
Some disenfranchised outcast teenagers spray up a high school, and we're supposed to blame the guns, not the brutal system of popularity enforced by students and teachers alike.
We can't comprehend what a gun would do against the U.S. Military's awesome might, because we can no longer comprehend banding together to fight a common enemy. We fear our own neighbor--because they might have guns.

It's fucked up, I know.


You've got to be kidding me.... especially the part about :

Quote:


Some disenfranchised outcast teenagers spray up a high school, and we're supposed to blame the guns, not the brutal system of popularity enforced by students and teachers alike.


I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. They have "brutal" systems of popularity across the world. If you think that's the reason these kids did this, then you really don't have any sort of grasp of that at all. The kids were fucking CRAZY. I'm not blaming their school for some CRAZY ass kids. And there are crazy people in this country. Tons of them. And the fewer guns in their hands, the better.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:07 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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djdee2005 wrote:
Reggie wrote:

You're wrong about this. Most guns in America's inner-city have come from U.S. Military stockpiles.


What?! Where do you get that information? Do you have a source? How on earth do they get access to military stockpiles?


I just did a quick search, and couldn't find anything, but that series a few years back about the Iran-Contra dealings with L.A. Gangs was all about that. Also, I can say for a fact that Desert Eagle firearms, only avaiable to the military and created for Desert Storm, were available to friends of mine the minute they were finished. Another friend of mine got all of his weapons through a military contact. Barring this evidence, your contention that street guns are just wayward legally purchased guns is laughable...or you don't really know how many illegal guns there are out there.
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:12 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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djdee2005 wrote:
I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. They have "brutal" systems of popularity across the world. If you think that's the reason these kids did this, then you really don't have any sort of grasp of that at all. The kids were fucking CRAZY. I'm not blaming their school for some CRAZY ass kids. And there are crazy people in this country. Tons of them. And the fewer guns in their hands, the better.


I have to disagree with this. Why all of these crazy kids, all of a sudden? Guns have been around for centuries, school popularity chastes and hazing have been around even longer. But the stakes have been raised, things are more brutal than ever. The backlash is equally brutal.

How do you determine which kids are crazy?
Post Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:18 am
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