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What is Your Translation of GOD?
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the incredible ticktalk



Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 40
Location: iowa
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I think humans have a grasp on our surroundings a bit better now. Can you actually tell me that ancient humans, as a whole, were as knowledgeable about things as humans today generally speaking? I think killing livestock as a sacrifice, and then casting all the nations guilt onto another animal for a god, is ludicrous. We all know good and well if you don't kill animals you're not going to be struck by lightening. And that's straight from the begginings of christianity.


i don't know, maybe i'm wrong, or ...wait...it's only an opinion....
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:29 pm
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dabinduppes



Joined: 03 Jul 2002
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I cant tell you the last time my urethra became in flamed nor the last time i couldnt shit because my balls were in the way....but its good food for thought right?
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:29 pm
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the incredible ticktalk



Joined: 07 Jul 2002
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f.a.q.s or facts? you make the call




ha
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:31 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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dabinduppes wrote:
Sitting here at my desk I have 2 ripe sweet smelling plums and one peach. This morning I ate a bannana and I was thinking that these things were not accidents or results of years and years of evolution. These foods that grow for us to eat are perfect in everyway. Not only do they come in their own wrapper but this wrapper also tells you the freshness/ripeness of the food just by the color. Not to mention the nifty way each one fits in your hand, and its just enough to be filling, not too much. These foods have a design, there must be a designer.
God left evidence through his creation.


Humans are toolmakers, so we assume that someone made us. Of course, we have no way of proving this nor are we likely to find one - but I don't think that humans are really concerned with that when you've got wars to fight.

Perhaps it is possible that our bodies adapted to the foods available?

I once spoke with a man who was immune to Cyanide because his father (a chemist that was overly paranoid of cold-war Russia) started feeding it to him in small doses when he was 13.

He was 55...so after a mere 42 years, his body turned something hazardous into something not hazardous.

If he were to have survived another 55 years, perhaps his body could have found nutrition in the Cyanide? Obviously a stretch...BUT...110 years is NOTHING in the context of human development - so in my mind it is reasonably safe to assume that your concept of God making fruits just for us to eat COULD be (noticed how I didn't say "is" ;-) a backwards way of looking at the scenario...perhaps we were here, and we had to adapt to what was around for consumption.

Peace,
Shane


Last edited by MessiahCarey on Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:32 pm
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Location: Queens, NYC
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caligula wrote:
Reggie wrote:
All God aside, why is ancient thinking flawed? I think that suggestion is what is flawed.


its not flawed necessarily, its just usually flawed because people did not have the understanding of the physical world that we do now. philosophers and others who thought about human nature are much less flawed in their thinking.


But most of our core philosophy comes from "ancient thinking." In fact, ancient times--meaning before the fall of the Roman Empire--was the only time that people were afforded the luxury of being freethinkers without having to panhandle.

The idea that ancient people did not know as much as we do is baseless. Their brains were the same size, their thumbs every bit as opposable as ours, and they existed a minimum of 5,000 years longer than our current "enlightened" form of society--possibly much longer. Everything we know about math, science, and astronomy is based on Mayan, Babylonian, Phoenician, etc. findings and teachings. Many of the technological advancements that we have "discovered" turn out to have been in wide use during ancient times, and this goes for everything from printing to standardized testing to batteries.

History is not linear. It is not a simple progression of one group building on the findings of the previous group. It's important to understand that before chewing off a bunch of thoughts about "ancient people."
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:33 pm
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dabinduppes



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More good food for thought....Im the devil's...err God's advocate today, lets say we know 50% of everything, is it possible that God exsists in the 50% that we dont know....

I cant belive in evolution, I think it takes more faith to believe that something came from nothing than a higher power's creation.
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:34 pm
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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the incredible ticktalk wrote:
We all know good and well if you don't kill animals you're not going to be struck by lightening. And that's straight from the begginings of christianity.





Do we? Most of the people struck by lightning in the last century did not sacrifice animals to God.
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:36 pm
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caligula



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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dabinduppes wrote:
I cant tell you the last time my urethra became in flamed nor the last time i couldnt shit because my balls were in the way....but its good food for thought right?


just wait til you are older, chances are good that some point you will have a swelled prostrate, and the point about the excretory/reproduction wasnt about balls getting in the way, the point is that i would keep waste removal organs as far away from pleasurecausing organs as possible. but you dont want to see the writing on the wall, so i will stop now.
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:39 pm
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caligula



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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Reggie wrote:
But most of our core philosophy comes from "ancient thinking." In fact, ancient times--meaning before the fall of the Roman Empire--was the only time that people were afforded the luxury of being freethinkers without having to panhandle.

The idea that ancient people did not know as much as we do is baseless. Their brains were the same size, their thumbs every bit as opposable as ours, and they existed a minimum of 5,000 years longer than our current "enlightened" form of society--possibly much longer. Everything we know about math, science, and astronomy is based on Mayan, Babylonian, Phoenician, etc. findings and teachings. Many of the technological advancements that we have "discovered" turn out to have been in wide use during ancient times, and this goes for everything from printing to standardized testing to batteries.

History is not linear. It is not a simple progression of one group building on the findings of the previous group. It's important to understand that before chewing off a bunch of thoughts about "ancient people."


math is math, no matter how you slice it, thats theoretical. other basic building blocks of knowledge were discovered a long time ago. thats how it had to work, you have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. but they didnt know about atoms, they didnt know about crystal structures, they didnt know about electricity, or diffusion, or nuclear effects. hell most of my major is material that is relatively new (last hundred or two years ago).

now, because of this lack of basic knowledge they made a lot of theories that were later proven to be incorrect. we still do it today, a lot of what happens at a atomic and quantum level is unknown, but now scientists arent creating a supernatural being as the answer. we just make up the best theories we can, conceed that its only a theory and keep working towards the truth.
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:42 pm
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MessiahCarey



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dabinduppes wrote:
I cant belive in evolution, I think it takes more faith to believe that something came from nothing than a higher power's creation.


Hmmm.

I don't understand how evolution insinuates that something came from nothing. Evolution means that something adapted to meet its necessities.

Now...if you're talking about the "Big Bang Theory" - which theists often group in with evolution for some strange reason (seeing as the two address totally different times during the earth's developement...) than I suppose I agree...because it's flimsy in my mind for the same reason you mentioned. Big Bang AND God are both ridiculous to me...remember...you're talking to an agnostic...which means that I have no problem saying "I don't know." if I'm asked a question as complicated as "where did the world come from?"

You see...where you say that one is more hard to beleive than the other, I would say they are both fairly hard to beleive. Although the possibility of a creator is there, I'll never deny that.

Peace,
42
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:43 pm
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the incredible ticktalk



Joined: 07 Jul 2002
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Location: iowa
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notice i wasen't speaking of ancient philosophers. I spoke of ancient people as a whole. Everyone that inhabited the earth. I'm sorry, i just find the human species to be silly, and i don't quite understand our goals. And I think most of this stems from ideas and guidelines beset upon us (by ourselves) long ago.

I think that if we (as the human race) can look upon each other without seeing so many unimportant differences global endevours would go a lot more smoothly.
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:48 pm
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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caligula wrote:
math is math, no matter how you slice it, thats theoretical. other basic building blocks of knowledge were discovered a long time ago. thats how it had to work, you have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. but they didnt know about atoms, they didnt know about crystal structures, they didnt know about electricity, or diffusion, or nuclear effects. hell most of my major is material that is relatively new (last hundred or two years ago).

now, because of this lack of basic knowledge they made a lot of theories that were later proven to be incorrect. we still do it today, a lot of what happens at a atomic and quantum level is unknown, but now scientists arent creating a supernatural being as the answer. we just make up the best theories we can, conceed that its only a theory and keep working towards the truth.


Do you realize that your second paragraph negates the first?

My point is: we don't know exactly what ancient people knew. We assume they knew less than us, but that's our own hubris. We also assume we know a lot of things because we think we can prove them empirically, but that's a whole other sociological discussion. All I'm saying is that maybe the reason we don't know everything that the ancient people knew is because they packed up their computer files and took them along on the spaceship ride to planet Atlantis near the dog star, Sirius, ya dig?
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:48 pm
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caligula



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the human race has goals? other than to survive?
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:49 pm
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the incredible ticktalk



Joined: 07 Jul 2002
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Location: iowa
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you can learn about what ancient people were all about by studying their behaviors. These such things are documented to some extent. I just find humans as a savage race. Shouldn't we try to be above all that????


that's all i'm getting at.
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:53 pm
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dabinduppes



Joined: 03 Jul 2002
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Easy Caligula you can still be my friend.....I was fully prepared for attacks that would coincide for even suggesting that there might be a god.

Im not trying to convert anyone, I wouldnt even know what to convert them into...?!
Post Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:53 pm
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