mr self distrukt
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1249
Location: a crew called self |
| my last post in this mastubatory topic |
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dorkasaurus wrote:
so you're saying women are responsible for their own oppression? wow. all this time i thought it was a male dominated society that relegated women to lesser roles. thanks for clearing everything up for me. though i not sure history is aware of shocking new revalation.
uh, no.
not even close to my point.
and don't be a weak, sarcastic asshole.
i'm no idiot. i know of the great inhumanities visited upon the female gender at the hand of males. but i also know that women have oppressed other women as well, undermining the cause...
the fucking point i was tryin to make is a cheesy one, but dammit, everyone shares the blame so stop pointing fingers and do something about it. the shit is shared- some greater, some to a lesser extent. but it's still a collective burden.
only through action can shit change. damn.
mr self distrukt wrote:
nowhere am i saying women have never helped each other.
also, i'm not justifying men's mistreatment of women.
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Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:29 pm |
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LuvSpeakeasy
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 809
Location: es ef. |
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Quote:
These rappers aren't talking about women in general. They're talking about bitches and hoes... because those DO exist.
once i had that same perspective. if a rapper throws around bitches and hoes, that's alright, i know they are not referring to me personally. but after years and years of hearing the same bullshit, i just got tired of it. and now when i hear those terms, it honestly makes my stomach turn. you can easily say well just don't listen to it, but i'm a very open minded person, and before i totally write off a song because i think it might contain shit i dont wanna hear, i try to give it a listen, and inevitably i have to shut it off before it's done. i definitely do not have a problem with males saying bitch or hoe, or whatever they have to say. as long as it makes sense in the content that it's used. if i hear a song that says, all ma bitches put ya hands up. ya better know for damn sure, that shit will not get played again by me. but for instance, in sage's song rewrite, bitch gets said a number of times. and it's one of my favorite songs. just don't be ignorant with the language you use.. its especially sickening when you see younger kids picking that shit up and coming up with a lack of respect for women in general.. but that's a whole other point.
whatever, people will continue making retarded music no matter what. just surround yourself with music you love, can't really worry too much about what other people chose to do.. blah blah blah, who really cares.... |
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Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:36 pm |
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Dee
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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that said, we have something called free speech. it gives everyone the right to say whatever they desire. if some rapper wants to defame women and call them whores and bitches and talk about blow jobs, it's his right. it is also the right of the individual to choose to listen to or ignore that music. an individual also has the right to complain til their heart's content.
Well, naturally anyone can say whatever they want...I think what she's saying is that she'd like to see hip hop be more progressive on womens issues. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:01 pm |
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dorkasaurus
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 537
Location: trench b |
| Re: my last post in this mastubatory topic |
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uh, no.
not even close to my point.
and don't be a weak, sarcastic asshole.
i'm no idiot. i know of the great inhumanities visited upon the female gender at the hand of males. but i also know that women have oppressed other women as well, undermining the cause...
the fucking point i was tryin to make is a cheesy one, but dammit, everyone shares the blame so stop pointing fingers and do something about it. the shit is shared- some greater, some to a lesser extent. but it's still a collective burden.
only through action can shit change. damn.
THAT SHIT IS INTREPID DAWG!
thank you my brother/sister for setting me straight. i now recant my earlier, hastily formulated scathing reply. too true are your words. and to quote an artist more gifted than i, "stop the fight, make the change, 'cause we're all in the same gang." - Michel'le |
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Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:05 pm |
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dorkasaurus
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 537
Location: trench b |
note: the first two paragraphs of my above post are courtesy of the always astute, never obtuse Mr Self Destrukto! |
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Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:09 pm |
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MessiahCarey
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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djdee2005 wrote:
They exist...
As one dimensional fantasies.
What woman is completely defined by the term "bitch" or "whore."
No men are defined completely by their sex habits....
Musical preference, maybe....wiggers.
This is kinda silly, man.
"wiggers" is just an alteration of the word "nigger" and easily carries the same connotations (because it assumes the use of the first word). Of course that doesn't bother ME because I'm not oversensitive to what people say like that, but I figured YOU'D want to know because it seems as if you'd no doubt have something to say if it's companion word was used...no argument, you say what you want and I'll respect your right to say it (even if it includes tall tales of you getting sucked off in a department store while you're dropping a verse ;-).
And yes, men ARE defined by their sex habits in the eyes of many women - just as it works in reverse. Not in "reality"...but when a man plays the part of scumbag "sexual begger" and gets in that mode where he's retarded enough to lie to women in exchange for sexual favors (a phenomenon I've seen cats use way too often) - then he BECOMES that one-dimensional prototypical "scumbag", at least temporarily. In the same way, when a woman drops her dignity and tosses meat javelin in her facepiece with some dude she doesn't even know the real name of...then yes...she does become the prototypical "ho"...is she a "ho" tomorrow? Perhaps not...but the bottom line is that to the cat that she got with, he only sees that one side...it's the only side SHE had the courtesy to present him with, or the only side he chose to see...and nobody seems to mind except the people that hear about it in songs after the fact. Heh.
- Shane |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:26 am |
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Dee
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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The wigger part was a joke related to another thread. I hate the word in general just because of the reason you said.
That said, my point stands. No person is defined solely by another person's judgement of their sexual habits. Some people may try to define them that way, but that is ignoring their basic humanity. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:13 am |
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MessiahCarey
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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djdee2005 wrote:
No person is defined solely by another person's judgement of their sexual habits. Some people may try to define them that way, but that is ignoring their basic humanity.
No shit. What's the point here?
PERCEPTIONS of people are based on different things...and have varying "priority" levels. Sex happens to be up there on the "priority" list...that's how it works with 90% of people, and if that's not YOU then great (it's really not me either) - but the reality is that we live in a different world than we'd like to.
I know some sluts that are GREAT people. They're sluts though, there's no question about that (and I'm not using "slut" in a gender-specific manner).
So, according to your argument - saying someone's a "ho", a "slut" or a "whore" shouldn't matter anyway because it's only ONE of the qualities that make a person. I agree.
- Shane |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:33 am |
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Dee
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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No.
Calling someone a slut emphasizes one aspect of their personality and yes, calling them that DOES define them that way...it ignores their other characteristics.
Just like how "N*****" is a bad term to use...it defines someone by their skin color rather than them as a person. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:19 am |
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Ben
Joined: 14 Aug 2002
Posts: 93
Location: Maine |
| well... |
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I always felt put off by the objectification of men in the Salt n Peppa song
"Shoop" which is mostly about blow-jobs. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:35 am |
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MessiahCarey
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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djdee2005 wrote:
No.
Calling someone a slut emphasizes one aspect of their personality and yes, calling them that DOES define them that way...it ignores their other characteristics.
Just like how "N*****" is a bad term to use...it defines someone by their skin color rather than them as a person.
No. It doesn't "define" them any more than you let it.
- Shane |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:47 am |
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Dee
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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a Rapper/performer "defines" them in his story....those terms are blanket statements. If he wants to describe someone who sleeps with lots of guys, he should be more createive about it. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:22 pm |
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Petrouchka Rasputin
Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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So if we want someone to take out the trash, we have to say "take out the trash before the divorced bald high school-dropout lazy-eyed model train enthusiast garbageman comes," or else we'd be unfairly ignoring the fact that the garbageman is more than his job? |
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Thu Sep 26, 2002 5:41 pm |
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Dee
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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....Show me a rap song where every man is referred to as a "garbage man"
I can show you several where all the women are referred to as bitches.
You get the point here? |
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Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:34 am |
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EisiGulp
Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 14
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| mother on being a hip hop bitch |
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It's hard to go to a hip hop show and not get offended being a woman. But who should I get pissed off at? The rapper? Nah, man, he's up on the stage speaking his mind and I'm in the audience, he's one up on me. The girls willing to drop to their knees in the hopes of catching a taste of the rapper's success? Nope, she's stupid enough to place the measure of her self worth on what some guy thinks of her. None of them really effect my life one way or the other...unless I let them.
The fact is I paid five or ten dollars to get into this joint and listen to this shit when I could be at home making a list of the world's problems and wraping the sollutions up together in one of my neat little activist poems and listening to my favorite rapper via my favorite, most comfortable headphones. That five dollars could have gone towards the outrageous cost I'm paying for studio time on my up coming album, "74 minutes that will change the world," and it really will change the world. I'm the a*hole who let my vibe get messed up, my aura must be blacker than Malcolm X right now. I'm glad rappers write songs about how they want their dicks sucked, I tried to learn how from my friend's parent's porn, but I just couldn't figure it out.
But seriously, with male rappers worying about getting sex, and dumb girls worrying about giving sex, being an outspoken woman is easier than it seems. The dumb girls look up to me, the dumb men are always impressed, and the intelligent people of both sexes know what I mean when I'm speaking.
Dig it?
PS Is hip hop supposed to be about positivity? I didn't get the memo, I feel like a real homoerectus stuck in the thought that raw self expression is the way to go. |
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Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:01 am |
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