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an email I recieved from a disgruntled female hiphopper.
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TheDude



Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts: 166
Location: Los Ange-lees
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No matter how much today's hip hop has changed and the pre-concieved notions that people might get from some newer artists that are maybe more positive, or don't curse so much or don't degrade women, the fact is that hip hop was birthed from the streets. No matter what it will always have that raw element. There will always be bad language, bragging, and male chauvenism in hip hop. That's just the way it is. If anybody can't handle that then they shouldn't listen. Just because one hiphop artist you like is a certain way doesn't mean you should expect every artist to act in that way and you can't get all upset about that. Basically if you're a grown person, then you know what you're getting into when you listen to hip hop or attend hip hop shows.


PS- Quote T-Wrecks
"I read on the HHI board, Missy Elliot recently did a song about shaving her coochie to get ready for cunniliguist.. now I'm not about to run out to the Mom & Pop to see if they have it on vinyl."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You painted the nastiest fuckin picture ever in my mind with that
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:00 pm
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gerhupsom vanbone



Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 2697
yo  Reply with quote  

was this a sage show?
If so what song was that?
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:19 pm
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argot



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Location: rhode island
come one  Reply with quote  

come all


Jesus... even Jezuz can make mistakes, haaaaaa

Jokin... i was kidding... i love you... where i shouldn't

True about some girls want it. But, not the girls who get harrassed on the street... or the girls who go to parties and come home with hickies that they dont know where the came from (ahem... my former friend).
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:24 pm
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vintge
is vintge vince? vince vintge vincge?


Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 4334
Location: LA
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i even wrote a long reply then decided to sum it up quicker

there are 10 girls who will fuck the richest guy in the room regardless for every 1 girl who is offended by lyrics. thats were the lyrics come from.
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:54 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
Re: come one  Reply with quote  

argot wrote:

True about some girls want it. But, not the girls who get harrassed on the street... or the girls who go to parties and come home with hickies that they dont know where the came from (ahem... my former friend).


If she doesn't know where the hicky came from, she can hardly blame anyone else.

"Alcohol is bad, mmmkay? If you can't keep your neck covered after drinking it, that's nobody else's fault, mmmmkay?"

;-)

Peace,
Shane
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:00 pm
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ILL SEER



Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 117
metinks  Reply with quote  

the girl has a point. sure things are the way they are, but we're allowed to want them the way we want them to be. and her critique is factual.
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:09 pm
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argot



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Location: rhode island
yes  Reply with quote  

i know dad... she's a fucking moron... i know i know i know
women arent objects though
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:23 pm
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Pele



Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Posts: 9
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I understand what she is saying.
It can be discouraging, as a female, to shake your ass to a song about a blow job while surrounded by drunk guys.
I hate that theres this idea that if I girl is sexual with a guy that he somehow won...
completely wrong.
Women own sex, we just give it out every now and again.
It is such a misconception that guys walk away from being with a girl and never think twice. Bullshit. Most the guys I know are hopless romantics too.
but...the thing about the blow job song...
I personally wouldnt want to listen to a song that said
"I was just gettin my box chowed"
thats just not my taste, in more ways than one...
You should respect women but its okay to enjoy getting a blow job
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:32 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
Re: yes  Reply with quote  

argot wrote:
i know dad... she's a fucking moron... i know i know i know
women arent objects though


Right, so tell her not to act like one.

See what I'm saying?

- Shane
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:28 pm
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Jocker



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 289
Location: Woonsocket, RI
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sage did you BONE her????



she wants the cock hook her up but if you already did how was it????


mutilate the labia......
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:07 pm
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Ironpen,Ironknee



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 237
Location: Illuminati Central Command
Rediculoid!!!!  Reply with quote  

That female needs to understand that any writing is subjective and that her personal preference has squat to do with what an artist is saying. I can't stand when someone thinks that they have the authority to label any art POSITIVE or NEGATIVE like they're Moses, sitting high on mount criticism. It takes a mature outlook to expose yourself to subject matter that you don't agree with wholehartedly and not take it personally-which is a capacity that girl obviously doesn't have. I don't have cable, and the only television show that I can pick up on my T.V in the afternoon is Oparah-a show that totally alienates me when I watch it, yet whatever Oprah says doesn't taint the "positivity" of my afternnon. But then again, I'm also not selfish enough to expect anyone to cater to me.
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:35 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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"Girls hold on to your dignity , yeah I said it"
SF


Brian
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:59 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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I can't understand why the girl didn't just think "I'm not into that. Next time I'll find out something about the acts before I go to a show," and leave it at that. What will complaining to Sage accomplish? Even if he started ending every show with "don't write about blowjobs, kids" it wouldn't change anything.

Shane - as usual, you're absolutely right.
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:07 pm
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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21592
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Heather is the name of the girl who sent me the original email. This messageboard is tricky and won't allow her to post (some of y'all have broke the code...I don't know how)
anyway, here is the response she sent me:




Whoever it was that posted that hip hop started in the streets, and that we
should never expect it to get rid of foul language, misogyny and bragging,
in some ways, I agree. Hip hop started in the streets, and it was an
incredibly important outlet for people who did not have a voice. Its
content reflected its origins, and, much like early blues-- the field
arhoolies that talked about lynchings, beatings, faith and despair of
slavery and acculturation, hip hop confronted the issues that were facing
poor, urban, black youth. It gave them a way to speak out against the
people who kept them gagged.

I would argue, however, that that is no reason not to hope for some more
positive changes in hip hop. There would be no social reform without people
within the paradigm willing to step out and say, ďFuck this. This is not
right, no matter how long I have heard that it is.Ē The civil rights or
womenís rights movements would not have advanced very quickly (or at all) if
some white men (the people who had the power) would not have rebelled and
said, ďOkay, so for 53 years, I have looked at black people (or women) as
animals, as property. I am going to change.Ē They had a lot of people
giving them shit and saying, ďBut itís always been this way. Fall in line.Ē
Itís a long process, and most people probably never get over their
prejudices completely, but it is the people within the paradigm that have to
change if they want the paradigm to change.

For the person who said I should do something about itóI have, and I will
continue to. I write, sing, learn. I think a lot about the clothes I wear,
the food I eat, the advantages I have earned on the backs of others. Iíve
done direct action civil disobedience, written letters to my beloved
legislators, tried to recognize my privilege and give some of it up, and
fucked up a whole lot. But my greatest fear is that I will still have to
tell my children that I didnít do enough, that it was too hard and that
things had been this way for too long. Sorry, honey.

I also realize that some people donít want things to change, usually
depending on the privilege that we haveó until youíre not in the position of
privilege anymore, things usually donít seem so bad. Maybe because I am a
woman, because for most of my life itís been fed to me through advertising
and popular culture and music that I should be body-hairless and wafer-thin
(but still have big breasts), white-skinned and blue-eyed (lucky meóI donít
have to bleach my skin or buy colored contacts), and try and figure out if I
should be sexy (slut) or virginal (prude), I have a different perspective.
I never really considered myself to be a feminist, necessarily, but I also
never thought it was right that I sometimes canít walk down the street
without getting looks and whistles from cars driving by, or that I had to
hear other women referred to by guys around me as bitches, sluts, and hos
(as long as it wasnít their mother or their sister). For the person who
said I should do something about itóI have. I write, sing, learn. Iíve
done direct action civil disobedience, written letters to my beloved
legislators, tried to recognize my privilege, and fucked up a whole lot.
Now I have a job at a rape crisis center, and I realize how many people (not
just women) have been assaulted, made powerless by someone who only wanted
to make them feel non-existent, and this is done as often as not with words.
It has gotten harder for me to smile and nod when I hear a song about
bitches getting on their knees and sucking a dick (or vice-versa).

I should also point out that I am all for sexuality in music (itís one of
the most sensual forms of expression that there is), and thereís plenty of
music out there (maybe a little hard to find, but I know yíall are record
collectors) to get freaky to that doesnít demean the parties involved. Iíd
be happy to recommend some for anyone whoís planning (or hoping) on getting
freaky.

Youíre right, I could just stay home and not go to shows, plug my ears and
hum ďMary had a Little LambĒ ignoring those offensive lyrics. I know that I
should expect sexist comments from MCs. I am just tired of it, thatís all.
I have been listening to hip hop for as long as I can remember, and I feel
it more than any other kind of music out there. I like that hip hop
sometimes has offensive lyrics, because it means that itís saying things
that are off limits in our society, and thatís so importantógo out with a
scream, not bound and gagged, wishing someone would have spoken up sooner.
All rightÖ Iíve said my piece. Feel free to email me or whatever, because
I would like to hear what you have to say.

earthhead73@hotmail.com
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 10:02 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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I actually agree with her...which is why I kind of avoided this thread for so long.

You can tell her to just go home and if she doesn't like the performer to not go to the performance...but seeing as she has certainly come up in a hip hop culture, she is a part of it. Its not as simple as you suburban cats talking about going to the city to catch a show and then going back to your hamlet in the better sections of town...Hip hop culture (or so i infer) is her hamlet in her section of town (and I don't mean to imply that she's from a poor area; I really don't know much about her other than what she's posted.)
Point is, telling her not to see hip hop when 99% of hip hop really is male dominated is like telling you not to .... I donno, what do you cats in the suburbs do...buy wonder bread? Put sprinklers on the lawn? Read Garfield?

Obviously the suburbs are just an example...rich folk live in the city as well, and poor people in the country can be just as hip hop as someone in the city (IE nappy roots). And yes, before I get the bitching, I know not everyone on the boards is from the suburbs.
Post Tue Sep 24, 2002 10:56 pm
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