Sage Francis
Self Fighteous
Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21329
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| an email I recieved from a disgruntled female hiphopper. |
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"I have been listening for as long as I have known about you, and I just wanted to say that there are very few artists out there today who I respect more. I met you in passing at a show in Portland, Oregon, and I wish I could have said more of this to you then, but I guess now I'll have to put it on a page and hope that I don't get torn to shreds by your website fans. Whatever.
First off, I'd like to say thank you for making it easier for non-drinkers, non-smokers to go to a show and not be the only one standing silently, wheezing on smoke-filled air, when the anhilated MC yells "How many of y'all out there are fucked up?!"
I also wrote because of an experience I had at a show the other day that made me angry at hiphop, momentarily. I guess I set high standards. But there was frustration in going to an underground hiphop show and hearing lots of positivity, and questioning, and seeing people who could give a shit about what's happening in the world finally get the message of the lyrics ("that shit actually happens?!?")... and then hearing a song, sung in all seriousness, about blow jobs and bitches who won't swallow. I see the face of my friend (her first hiphop show) and all the girls around me shut off, and I feel angry because this is the music that I love, that gives me hope that not everyone has turned a blind eye to the problems and oppression that are ever-present. I feel like I duped my friend by encouraging her to come to this show-- I promised her upliftment and openness, people saying what other people are afraid to say. Instead, she got a reminder that the way to be a "nice girl" is to get on her knees and suck the dick of one of the drunk, belligerent fools in the audience who kept screaming "Yo, that shit is tight!!"
Hiphop gives me butterflies. It is the music (and culture) that speaks to me and for me more than any other, and I will always love hiphop. But that shit did not speak for me.
The experience I had at your show was completely different. It was sarcastic, pessimistic, frank, raw, and honest, but never did I or anyone in the audience that I talked to (except for the jackass smoker in the back) feel shut off. Angry, sad and frustrated maybe, because of the things you said, and because we knew that most of it is true, even if we can't relate with your personal experience. Writing this email to you was intimidating because I know you're brutally up-front with people. But I had to let you know that I appreciate what you do.
Peace."
I really don't know how I would deal with this shit if I was a female. I think i would do my best to work my craft and challenge all the bullshit on a lyrical level. but I will never really know. It's upsetting for sure. Females definitely don't need to feel MORE alienated from a chauvinistic "culture"
I do my best to offend everyone equally. Help me fight the good fight. |
Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:27 am |
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T-Wrex
p00ny tang
Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 6175
Location: Detroit, Michigan |
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"...if you give good brains, you can play with the halo..."
I thoroughly enjoy blowjobs.
I think songs about blowjobs are entertaining.
Jokes about blowjobs make me laugh.
Like the screaming idoits in the front row said, "Blowjobs are tight!"
Whatever floats your boat.
I know it's cliche, but.. "..If you don't like it, don't listen.."
I don't dig chick flicks. But that doesn't mean that I think Hollywood is "RUINING THE ARTFORM OF CINEMATOGRAPHY, WHICH I LOVE SO DEARLY!" and I don't get....
Quote:
angry
....with it. I don't think that they alienate male viewers, either, when they make 'em, cuz there are some guys who like crying over a good tearjerker. I just don't pay attention to the whole shebang. I read on the HHI board, Missy Elliot recently did a song about shaving her coochie to get ready for cunniliguist.. now I'm not about to run out to the Mom & Pop to see if they have it on vinyl. It's a scary thought, actually. But.... to each, their own.
Go to concerts that you know will be a safe enviroment for you and your friends. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:44 am |
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maxamillion
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 1040
Location: The Netherlands |
Better get used to the fact that more than 99.9% of the people on this earth are fucked up. And better get used to the fact that like 100% of people don't feel the same about things as you do (that goes for everybody) |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:52 am |
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dabinduppes
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 615
Location: FULLERTON |
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If what she said wasnt taken out of context, I can absolultley understand how some lyrics would make girls uneasy...
Sexism is a huge problem. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 6:11 am |
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barlow
Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 1100
Location: Leeds, UK |
Guys that like songs about blowjobs are the same guys that dream of one day recieving one. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 6:17 am |
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Reggie
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5764
Location: Queens, NYC |
Looks like someone mistook "music appreciation" for "cultural participation." These are different things. I've also heard this claim before: "I thought underground hip-hop was supposed to be about positivity?!" Where the hell have people been? It's things like this that give credence to the moans and groans of old-timers that demand you respect the old school. Maybe if more people did, they wouldn't be so confused by rap's misogyny.
I'm not for graphic songs about blowjobs, or am I for some girl catching bad feelings because of them. But these insinuations (and the weird, misplaced thing about people smoking? Whatever) are just more holier-than-thou rhetoric more suited at an Edie Brickell concert. You can place your faith in a music but not in a person. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 6:30 am |
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amo1ne
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 1455
Location: MTL514CANADA |
I think the best way to unravel the many layers of this thread is with a simple yet honest quote. If I may now directly cite the classic words of the honorable gentleman, Mr. MC Paul Robert Barman in relation...
"A HAND JOB'S A MAN'S JOB, YO JOB'S A BLOWJOB!"
I think you should just reply to her email with those words, ahahahah!!! |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:17 am |
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argot
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Location: rhode island |
| yeah |
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the fact that you know MCPB's middle name makes me hate you... |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:38 am |
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argot
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Location: rhode island |
| mm |
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We had a small talk about this. URI is not only filled with chauvinistic assholes, but also with the women who cater to them. Many girls go to parties KNOWING that most, if not all, of the guys there are not interested in getting to know them, or talking to them. They just want what they want. Disgusting, folks... disgusting. Being the direct recipient of this is fucking awful for girls. It's fucked up bullshit.
"When I say hip... ya'll say shut the fuck up, we ain't sayin' shit, and I'll respect it."
Fuck chauvinistic garbage.
poop
however... she did say your show was... FRANK. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:45 am |
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mr self distrukt
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1249
Location: a crew called self |
| word to reggie and argot. |
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it's difficult not to victim-blame here.
because i do realize that people feelin alienated or at least unequal is some wack shit, but still... elitism and one-upsmanship is a huuuge part of the culture.
i have this theory, that people who constantly refer to hip-hop culture and how into the culture they are and how the culture this and the culture that, don't really understand the emcee side of it and are most likely newcomers to hip-hop anyway; perhaps not fully grasping what some of the music speaks on. thus gettin offended when murs (i'm assuming) spits something about gettin brain. yo, listen to atmosphere's new album it's full of this "i got your girl to do ______" type shit... it may not be as spelled out and upfront about it as this dick suck song, but i'm a much bigger fan of the face-to-face "fuck you" than the slick inside-joke delivery with female-friendly packaging prefered by slug.
if she thinks of hip-hop as a culture, then you can't really separate underground from mainstream... and if there's mysogyny in the mainstream, you're more than likely going to have it in the underground... necro/non-phixion? too short? khia? they're hip-hop just like capital D, jeru, and medusa. different branches, same tree. she should have realized that this kind of shit happens and prepped her on it... hip-hop is more than just atmosphere... (and no matter what i think, hip-hop has greatly benefitted from the presence of slug).
regardless, it is too bad when people newly introduced to the music, are turned off by an emcee. if she truly thinks of hip-hop as a culture, then she should realize there's many many more aspects and voices then what one emcee or a whole bunch of them spit. i think too many females either go with the flow or turn their backs... neither of which bring about new blood or evolution. because personally, i think this kind of shit is wack as fuck... fuck belittling anyone based on their sex... it's base and uncreative, not to mention just plain immature.
i like the fact she wrote an email about it. it shows she's at least willing to speak up. hopefully, she can take it off the page and onto a mic... or bullhorn... or vocalize it period... regardless of public opinion.
and her friend has two choices, don't participate or participate and speak out. that's what keeps any culture alive and fresh...
sage makes a good point though, i'm not female so i really have no place to say how to react.
(oh, and fuck amo1one.) |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 9:31 am |
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anonjondoe
Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 437
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| you're fuckin fired |
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Murs is my best friend. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 10:16 am |
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MessiahCarey
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10920
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| Re: mm |
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argot wrote:
They just want what they want. Disgusting, folks... disgusting.
Disclaimer: I love and respect women.
BUT...I disagree with you here, Argot.
The men aren't the only ones that know that "they want what they want". Women "want what they want" as well...and the ones that you are speaking on usually want to get fucked if they so choose (otherwise, they won't). So they go to parties looking for hot guys to hook up with (to varying degrees of "severity"), just like guys do. The truth is that everyone in that atmosphere is usually pretty up front and honest about what they want...and this is your COMPLAINT? To me, it's better if nobody has any false presumptions (and yes, this includes the presumption guys have that sex is expected as well - but a woman's behaviour is JUST as integral in dictating this as a man's is).
Basically...yes...the world is chauvenistic (although it does continue to get better, no?) - but at its core, the above example you mentioned is a great way of showing that women are just as chauvenistic as males in a lot of situation...this is not a 100% male problem.
Peace,
Shane |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 10:46 am |
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amo1ne
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 1455
Location: MTL514CANADA |
| Re: yeah |
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argot wrote:
the fact that you know MCPB's middle name makes me hate you...
I just made that up actually.. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:03 am |
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MessiahCarey
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10920
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His middle name is Nathaniel - don't hate me forever my man. ;-) |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:09 am |
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tie-my-shoe
Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 450
Location: university of virginia |
| Re: mm |
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argot wrote:
We had a small talk about this. URI is not only filled with chauvinistic assholes, but also with the women who cater to them. Many girls go to parties KNOWING that most, if not all, of the guys there are not interested in getting to know them, or talking to them. They just want what they want. Disgusting, folks... disgusting. Being the direct recipient of this is fucking awful for girls. It's fucked up bullshit.
how do you know that the girls don't want it as much as the guys do? how do you know the women don't want to get to know the guys either and just want no strings attached sex? there's nothing wrong or disgusting or fucked up about sex. if two people decide to have sex then decide they don't want to have a relationship then so fucking what? why does sex have to be accompanied by marriage/long term relationships in the first place? the only possible reason i could think of is religion, and i dont believe in that bullshit. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:27 am |
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