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As twisted as it may seem, the DRAFT may be what we need.
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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21594
As twisted as it may seem, the DRAFT may be what we need.  Reply with quote  

I've been thinking about this.

I've been reading debates.

I do not the support the war.

I do not support our current government.

Out of all the people who were sent to war, how many of them do you think come from the middle to upper class?

If we had the draft, the issue of senseless deaths taking place over seas would hit much closer to home for people of all classes.

It would put many people in a compromising and unfortunate position...boo hoo.

Right now, and as usual, the lower class is targeted for military recruitment. They are considered dispensible. They are treated that way too. In fact, after school (if they even make it through highschool,) one of the only enticing options they are presented with is joining the military. They are promised education, money and security. Well...sometimes you have to erase the face on the front of your head and kill in the name of older white men, but that only happens every...10 years or so. Or 5 years...if you're lucky.


Reinstating the draft will make it more obvious who is and isn't for the war.

People will rebel.

People of power will rebel.

When little johnny and jennifer have to put a bright future on hold for the sake of war, much more consideration will go into what they do in life and why. Nobody should feel safe under the conditions we are living in, but the middle and upper class seem to be sitting pretty.

Bring the war home.

We will then see who rejects or accepts their duties as an American citizen. Ducking the draft is an option.

The draft is a scary reality, but a necessary one by my calculations. Not for winning the war, but for bringing about real change to our policy at home and abroad.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:27 am
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: www.NERDTORIOUS.com
...  Reply with quote  

I agree people do need to realize how REAL the situation is, and the draft would certainly disrupt the apathetic upper class youngsters.

But the draft isn't the way to do it. It shouldn't be used as tool to inspire rebellion.

Rebellions tend to need an event, a blow out- a spark. A draft would just send more troops to death in the name of our flag.

We do NEED to bring the war home somehow. The upper class does nned to feel the WEIGHT that the lower class does.

Plus, I'm tired of hearing how upper class networks help themselves dodge drafts.

I do know, however, that the first step is to vote Bush out.

abacus
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:20 am
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bensandoval



Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 2564
Location: berkeley
 Reply with quote  

i agree, with both points.

the draft would bring the war home and make it infinitely more personal to those slightly outside the currently impacted classes. and that is something needs to be done , be it by means of the draft or otherwise. reality must be made reality. however, sacrificing lives(of any class) is not the ideal situation.

granted, ideal situations will never be a reality, but it is nice to dream.

not saying i have the answer, but i'm not so sure the answer has been brought to my attention either.

draft good or bad? i dunno, but i do think that something needs to change to make people realize exactly how detrimental war can be to each generation. my(our, whatever) generation seems to be generally considered to be dispensible. but then again each generation that happens to be at the forefront for military deployment is going to get the short end of the stick, especially the lower classes.

i don't know what to do, but i'm not so sure the draft is the best way to go about things.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:34 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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Ouch.

The only way a draft would work, in my mind, is if the assertion that George Bush is true evil was WRONG.

I'm AFRAID of what Bush will do militarily if he has the manpower of a draft behind him.

Not to mention that I just don't care to live in a country that is willing to legally FORCE people to kill someone.

No draft for me. If we want to stop this war without one, all it's going to take is a rebellion that includes a middle ground of frustration. You need the regular blue collar not-so-left leaning type to get out and protest with everyone else - and it means that maybe some of those on the left will have to drop some of their more inflammatory anti-Bush rhetoric for the greater goodb (in the same way that a "Bush is a liberal commie" sign wouldn't work. Heh.). A bi-partisan protest that urges those on the left AND right to participate in a fasion that has REAL conservatives and REAL liberals out in the streets yelling at the President may be one way to hone in this effort and avoid it.

I just can NOT get down with a draft. It's immoral to me to make someone kill. People are talking about being in Iraq for YEARS (and yes, one of those people are DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE JOHN FUCKING KERRY) - and I'm afraid that a draft isn't likely to stop that before the reality of one human life lost, and the sanity of another is taken simultaneously. I will fight tooth and nail against a draft. I've been afraid of this shit since the war started.

It's odd to me, because it's often those who think that the Bush administration is true evil that propose the idea for the draft - but on the other hand...if this can is truly the embodiment of evil as is let on, is it really a responsible decision to give him potentially unlimited flesh to work with? I'd have to say NO.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:12 am
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apeofdeath
FIRE BREATHING DRAG QUEEN


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2804
Location: Kingston, mang
 Reply with quote  

If you want to bring the military into the homes of the American citizens, just force every citizen to do military service for a minimum term of 2 months.

Korea does it, Turkey does it... and guess what? It fucking SUCKS.

I being a Turkish citizen (my father is Turkish) am forced to do military service if I wish to keep my Turkish citizenship (which I do.) I've never lived in Turkey, I wasn't born in Turkey so why the fuck should I have to do military service for a country that I've never lived in?

Fuck the draft, fuck military service and fuck the army.


I am aware that I am digressing, but instituting a draft is in no way going to solve any problems. It's too much of a quick fix. The rich will find ways to evade the draft and the poor will just get angrier and angrier. It wont solve anything
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:58 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
 Reply with quote  

astronot wrote:
The rich will find ways to evade the draft and the poor will just get angrier and angrier.


Yes. This is true. See: Vietnam.

Where was Bush?

- Shane
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:25 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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I'll be damned if I'll be directly impacted by world events.
Sorry, I'm not at all down with a draft just to prove a point.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:43 am
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still illiterate



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1941
Location: Iowa
 Reply with quote  

Colombia has forced military service at 18 as well. I'd bet that most countries have some sort of less then voluntary service.

And maybe I'm wrong about this, but can't you be a conscientious objector and not have to actually serve in the military, instead you would serve the country in other ways.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:50 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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still illiterate wrote:
Colombia has forced military service at 18 as well. I'd bet that most countries have some sort of less then voluntary service.

And maybe I'm wrong about this, but can't you be a conscientious objector and not have to actually serve in the military, instead you would serve the country in other ways.


That's fine. As long as that way has nothing to do with the United States Military, that is. And I mean NOTHING. Nothing that in ANY WAY helps in the immoral act of killing other humans.

That aside, I'm not buying anyone's defense that America should do ANYTHING because "other countries do it!" That matters not to me. I don't necessarily think it's a good idea for any country.

Switzerland forces all males between a certain age to have a machine gun IN THEIR HOME as a result of their mandatory service. Is that a good idea for America? I would argue that it certainly has no harm, but I have a feeling that if that plan was to be enacted tomorrow in this country that things would get very ugly politically (although we'd probably see less violent crime, would it be worth it to force people to have weapons against their will?).

Besides - if a new draft is passed, you can toss all your conscientious objector laws because that would kind of usurp the "point" being made by doing this. If political children can be "conscientious objectors" then we don't exactly have much of an even playing field do we? If EVERYONE can claim it...well...then I have a hard time thinking we'll have any soldiers that AREN'T the ones that were just too uninformed (or uneducated, perhaps) to even KNOW they can be a consciencious objector.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:21 am
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Noisetonepause



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 393
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I failed my physical else I'd have been forced to join the army for ten odd months. I'm quite sure it would've done me some good... teach me a bit of respect and how to get up in the mornings (I already know how to shine leather footwear and walk more than ten metres without crying about it; both come in handy from time to time).

I don't know if I'm for it, but I'm not directly opposed to it either. Not out of nationalism or anything, but cos I think being conscripted'd do me and my mates quite a bit of good... plus, they don't only teach you how to kill over here; you also learn quite a bit about teamwork (and when there is and isn't time for everyone's opinion to be heard) and about first aid and things. I dunno. Pros and cons, IMHO, but then you aren't forced to go to war here (there are Danish troops in Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan etc. as well) if you're just a conscript. You can volunteer, but nobody's forced.

-Paws
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:33 am
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Noisetonepause



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 393
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Oh, and the way it works over here - if you don't wanna go do your 'duty', you have to do something else instead. Like work in a kindergarten or shite like that... either way, you have to spend your time working for the community.

Interesting thing BTW - I know of an African country (can't remember which it was) that forces all youths to spend their 18th year working for the state. Building infrastructure, as teachers, such things... Great idea, IMHO, though they probably need it more in Africa than we do here.

-Paws
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:36 am
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Random Sample



Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 2460
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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All upper middle class people have to do is to enroll into college. You do not get drafted if you are in college. T

he draft is a bad idea. Yes you do take people from all ranges of society, but more people dying who don't have a choice is not the answer.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:38 am
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Rhino



Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 4798
Location: Square of Despair
 Reply with quote  


Quote:

Right now, and as usual, the lower class is targeted for military recruitment


I want to see some sort of evidence that the lower class makes up the majority of the military or the how they are being more targeting for enlistment then the middle class. I was active duty in the Marines for 5 years and everybody I knew came from middle class upbringings.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:47 am
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kese



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 5454
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I see the logic but it won't work. Why call for people to serve a millitary when the millitary is wrong. If you're saying being put into a corner will force people to react, that's good and all, but it would be messy.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:11 am
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
Re: As twisted as it may seem, the DRAFT may be what we need  Reply with quote  

Sage Francis wrote:

If we had the draft, the issue of senseless deaths taking place over seas would hit much closer to home for people of all classes.



I'd support a draft if the statement you typed above turned out to be true.

Its sorta like our social security system right now though, its a big mess because the upper class doesn't rely on it and politicans have a total separate system.

Based on history money and power thrown in key areas will keep the upper class out of the draft or new citizens of Canada.
Post Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:31 am
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