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how many conservatives? How many liberals...??
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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guns dont kill people people do;]


idont doubt the statistics, but what i do doubt is the intelgence ofthe people sooting other peoplef or no good reason

just curious how many of them 30000 were legit cases of self defense?law enforcement orgov. related?

oh and dont pull the spelling card because i really have nothing to prove
Post Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:19 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11242
Location: MN
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Quote:

guns dont kill people people do;]


idont doubt the statistics, but what i do doubt is the intelgence ofthe people sooting other peoplef or no good reason

just curious how many of them 30000 were legit cases of self defense?law enforcement orgov. related?


normal, law abiding citizens of this country, often are caught up in non normal, heat of passion related murders. then there are all the accidents. Then there is the one in a hundred that are skizophrenic and snap at the age of 24 after they are well armed and decide to go to the bell tower or after Reagan. Then there are the fools who go for their gun to realize that the intruder found it already. Then there are the fools who go for their gun to realize the intruder already has theirs pulled. Then there are the people who get a bout of depression and decide to end it all. Then there are the innocent people who get their doors broke down and shot by law inforcement who got the address wrong.
Then yes, there are some who did it in self defense. The great minority.

You are much more likely to get killed with a legit gun that was stolen than you are to triumphantly Okay Corral quickdraw save yourself and the girl.

Actual self defense would be to talk to the intruder in as calm a voice as possible, while not looking at their face, and tell them where your resources are kept. Otherwise, yes, you do have the right to die in a triumphant blaze of glory for what you've worked so hard for. You also have the right to die in all those other unexpected eventualities of life.

And you have the right, and nobody can tell you otherwise. That's a very Libertarian viewpoint you have there. It's too bad we are no longer underseige on the frontier.
Post Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:33 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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Quote:

Then there is the one in a hundred that are skizophrenic and snap at the age of 24 after they are well armed and decide to go to the bell tower or after Reagan.


should they be able to get guns in the first place ?
not imo


Quote:

Then there are the fools who go for their gun to realize that the intruder found it already. Then there are the fools who go for their gun to realize the intruder already has theirs pulled.


then your fucked what else is there to say?



Quote:

Then there are the people who get a bout of depression and decide to end it all.


isometimes think that they shouldhave every right to go out lke that
not my style though




Quote:

You are much more likely to get killed with a legit gun that was stolen than you are to triumphantly Okay Corral quickdraw save yourself and the girl.



maybe ...maybe not



Quote:

Actual self defense would be to talk to the intruder in as calm a voice as possible, while not looking at their face, and tell them where your resources are kept.


if hes gonna shoot you hes gonna regardless of what you say


Quote:

Otherwise, yes, you do have the right to die in a triumphant blaze of glory for what you've worked so hard for. You also have the right to die in all those other unexpected eventualities of life.



exactly



Quote:

And you have the right, and nobody can tell you otherwise. That's a very Libertarian viewpoint you have there. It's too bad we are no longer underseige on the frontier.


all i can say to that is if you dont like it move to canada
youll be safe there
i dont see our countrys gun laws changing any tim soon
Post Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:55 pm
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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walkingparadox wrote:
i dont see our countrys gun laws changing any tim soon


I would hope not, but I wouldn't count on it.

It's a big reason why I can't vote for Kerry, although my state will.

I have to concede that owning a gun doesn't make you any safer, that's not the issue.

I'm fully aware, from a very personal standpoint, the danger that guns present. The problem is that they are more dangerous in the hands of the inscrupulous than they are in the hands of the responsible - bans on guns of any sort only makes it easier for criminals (be them governmentally supported or not) to get them, and difficult for anyone else to have them.

And in regards to handmade guns not being an issue, I disagree, they could be made fairly easy after the people who work at the factories are sent home with no other skills. Heh. Do you think these homemade guns will even have ANY of the most basic safety precautions? If people's concerns are ACCIDENTS with guns, the LAST thing we'd EVER want to see happen is the production of them pushed underground.

- Shane
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:14 am
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MC Pope



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 2986
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Right. Seriously ... the US has some pretty fucking lax gun laws. Do you honestly think that tightening those laws would make it easier for criminals to get guns? I mean, its not as though they seem to have any trouble getting them at moment ...

And I still don't buy the 'homemade guns' argument. Just because a guy gets fired from an auto factory, doesn't mean he can go home and build himself a car. And seeing as how most of the market for these 'homemade guns' would be criminals anyway, I really don't have a problem with these hypothetical guns being shitty and unsafe.

Face the facts dude. The harder it is for people to get guns, the less likely they are to be shot with them. I'm all for freedom and liberty, but the majority of people are just too fucking stupid to be allowed to own a device purely designed to kill other people.
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:28 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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MC Pope John Paul II wrote:
Face the facts dude. The harder it is for people to get guns, the less likely they are to be shot with them. I'm all for freedom and liberty, but the majority of people are just too fucking stupid to be allowed to own a device purely designed to kill other people.


Wow. Arrogance. Tasty.

The majority of people don't shoot guns at all, even though our "lax" gun laws allow them to do so. I think you'll find the population vs. murder rate is a significantly different number. Ha. I'll ignore the fact that YOU are not the final decision maker in how "stupid" everyone is.

Guns are not cars (for many reasons, only one including complexity). I believe (perhaps wrongly) that guns are the kind of thing - like drugs - that will be produced by people one way or the other, period. The same would probably happen were cars outlawed.

- Shane
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:37 am
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MC Pope



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 2986
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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I still have no idea where you're coming from here ...

Yes. People will always find a way to beg, borrow, steal, or make guns. So what. If you ban guns, then less people will have guns. If less people have guns, less people will be killed by guns. And fuck that 'ban guns, and only the criminals will have them' shit. Show me some figures that prove that owning a gun makes you (and your family) less likely to be killed, not more.

Yeah, I'm arrogant. But I'm also in favour of less people getting killed. Even if they are a bunch of morons.
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:51 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Food for thought:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36f5b0c321f5.htm

- Shane
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:57 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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Shane,

If you knew for a fact that your individual vote would be a decisive one in the 2004 Presidental election, would you vote for Kerry?

Just curious.

Me
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:02 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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Reggie wrote:
Shane,

If you knew for a fact that your individual vote would be a decisive one in the 2004 Presidental election, would you vote for Kerry?

Just curious.

Me


Wow. I don't know, man. I have to think about that.

Hard.

- Shane
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:09 am
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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Holy crap...My nipples are like BOTTLE CAPS from this thread...It's GREAT!
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:19 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11242
Location: MN
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fuck it. Everybody should have many guns in this country, loaded and on their person at all times.

We're all gonna die anyway.

"And wouldn't you feel stupid up in the hospital dying of nothing" Red Foxx

It's divide and conquor. Faction against Faction. Our voice will never be as one, and that is by design.

Gun control isn't actually the issue. The issue is the deep philisophical problems in this country that lead us to violence on a grand scale.

Like survival of the fittest.

In science, fit actually means the organism that can propagate the most. More babies.

Not who is in the bigger SUV, with the bigger back yard with the taller fence and the big pit bull.
Old Dirty Bastard by that measure is much more fit than Ahnold Schwartzenega.
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:51 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11242
Location: MN
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we are all gunna die!
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:07 pm
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Noisetonepause



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 393
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Interesting read, all of this. I still can't understand why civilians would want to be armed... but maybe that's cos I come from this nice place with public health insurance and no guns... except for the coppers, of course, but then in 2002, nationwide, there were 270-some odd cases of a police man even getting his gun out of the holster, in a country of 5 million people... (but then they are lazy buggers, so ;))

Dan Shay. I find your last post most disturbing, if I read it correctly. You don't believe in the state as a monopoly on violence so as to protect us all? I'm told is on of the foundations of democracy... if everybody has guns and are free to use them, what of law and order?!

walkingparadox wrote:
if hes gonna shoot you hes gonna regardless of what you say


if he's there to rob your house, he's not going to shoot you unless he feels forced to. I dunno. I'd rather see a guy make off with my laptop and stereo than have him kill me. It's just... stuff, y'kna? Get it insured if it matters that much to you.

-Paws
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:37 pm
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Machiavel



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 766
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MC Pope John Paul II wrote:
Face the facts dude. The harder it is for people to get guns, the less likely they are to be shot with them. I'm all for freedom and liberty, but the majority of people are just too fucking stupid to be allowed to own a device purely designed to kill other people.


This has to be the most rediculous thing i have EVER read. seriously. You are saying that you are all for individual freedoms, but that you dont think people are responsible enough for it?

In all seriousness, gun control doesnt bother me one bit. I could, tomorow go buy a gun if i wanted. I was thinking about it recently but i really dont have enough money to spend it on something like a gun.

What i find most interesting is the people who have guns, and then try to rationalize them, saying things like "i need it for protection." if you talk to alot of gun owners and ask them how many times they have "needed" their weapon, you are likely to get some story, from i would say about half of them (at least thats about my case in the people I have talked to). Now if you ask people who DON'T own guns how many times they have needed one its pretty much zero (and dont give me that "the ones that needed them are DEAD! bullshit). If somone were to break into your house, generally they have the intention of stealing shit, not killing you. Anyway, my point is that I think the people who feel they need a gun are the ones who probably shouldnt own them.

And all in all, do you really think you would be "safer" if gun sales were outlawed? hardly, i'd say. People could kill you with any number of weapons. If you've ever heard the 21 foot rule, you know what I mean.

And lastly, making a gun wouldnt be that difficult, because making gunpowder isnt all that difficult, and surely making the gun itself would be pretty easy, hell, the first guns are how many years old? You can smelt certain metals with a modified microwave, and last option would be excercising your welding skills.

i think everyone is just too worried about everyone else dying. Yeah its tragic when a kid shoots his sister because he found daddys gun, but what the hell can you do. I would rather worry about myself.
Post Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:42 pm
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