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Stopped at the border. The fuckers took my prints.
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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random_sample wrote:
Ahhhhh the Patriot Act is such a good law. Keeps you no good Canadians out of our country.



I am just playing. That shit is fucked up, but why would you say you had a record?


Well, a couple of reasons really. Firstly it was my sister doing all the talking and she hesitated a little when the guy asked her and I didn't want her to get caught lying.

Secondly I thought that he already did know and was checking to see if I was lying

Thirdly, I also thought that since it's been 4 years since my arrest it was okay. Apparently, even with a pardon i'm not allowed until I pay the fucking fee.

The messed up thing is that I was arrested for drug trafficking and affiliation with organized crime, so I could understand being suspicious/cautious but they didn't even search me or anything. The whole thing seemed so pointless. If they suspected me of bringing in dope then they would of checked the car or at least me and if they didn't supsect me then why not let me go?
Post Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:59 pm
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Drunken Friar



Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 585
Location: Framingham, MA
ummm  Reply with quote  

Drug Trafficking and affiliation with organized crime? Yea, I would say thats serious enough to warrent the way that they treated you.
Post Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:09 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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Well, the security is warranted in this world of imaginary borders that define ideology, sadly. Can hardly blame a "country" for wanting to be "secure".

The fact that you have a drug charge, I suppose since our "country" is dumb enough to give a fuck about drug trade, they have grounds. ::shrug::

The only thing that I definitively take issue with is not giving the individual the opportunity to turn away and go home, WITHOUT taking their records and information. There is no reason that you should be forced to give such information to a country you are not a "citizen" of (slave to), period. I mean, that is if we're adopting the ridiculous notion of "countries" into our paradigm to begin with.

Bah. Did they ask you why you wanted to come in, even?

When I went up north, they gave me a real hard time, took my information but eventually let me in (because I also have a drug charge). The guy was aiight, though. I crossed in Maine on the road that leads to Sugarloaf mountain heading north, and it looked like a gas station - I could have gone straight through without stopping had I wanted to (sure they wouldn't have like that, though). I didn't even SEE a U.S. stop coming the other way. I wonder if it would be easier/harder to cross there.

- Shane
Post Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:18 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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Quote:

Drug Trafficking and affiliation with organized crime? Yea, I would say thats serious enough to warrent the way that they treated you.




They had the right to be suspicious, they had the right NOT to let me in their country, they had the right to search me/the car (which they did NOT even do) But they had ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING RIGHT TO TAKE MY BIOLOGICAL IDENTITY.

Messiah - My friend was telling me that there are many back roads that you could take that will take you across the border but he said that they watch those streets pretty well too.


Quote:

Did they ask you why you wanted to come in, even?


This is how it went:
Guard: "What are you here for?"
Sister: "we're here to see a show."
Guard: "Where abouts."
Sister: "Club metronome."
Guard: "Ohh, that's a hip hop club right.
Then, two seconds later he says.
Guard: "do any of you have a criminal record?

See now, I could understand that they'd be a little suspicious considering i'm only gonna be in the country for a few hours and what not but the reason that they didn't let me in, and the reason that they THREATEND ME and FORCED ME to give them my shit had NOTHING to do with suspicions of drug trafficking. This was about something else entirely.

THis means WAR! I'm fucking serious.
Post Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:41 am
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Drunken Friar



Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 585
Location: Framingham, MA
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want anymore cheese with that whine?

and messiah carey....I am very happy that MY country, the great united states of america, land of the free, home of the brave, good ol' red white and blue does give a fuck about the drug trade, without laws (and i would have to say that this example is pretty clear cut that the border officers were well within their rights) there is danger to every citizen. I know you are all on this "oh i dont believe in countries" shit. But you are gonna have to deal with it. It has been this way since the first civilizatons came about.
Post Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:53 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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Dude, they absolutely had NO RIGHT intimadating me to give them something as private as my finger prints. I'm a CANADIAN citizen, not American. If your government wants to start stripping their citizens of their RIGHTS and PRIVACY that's one thing (which I do think is wrong) but don't tell me they have the right to do that shit to me.

And i'm going to great some legal advice and find out what exactly our MY RIGHTS and I bet you anything that what they did was totally illegal. BUt I got their names . . . the fat fucks.

By the way, their have been laws long before we were subjected to this "civilization" but they were not laws written by man. They were laws that actually KEPT order. These were laws that were maintaining harmony through out the planet but were broken when Man started trying to become like God.

And this paticular law (SELLING MARIJUANA, A FUCING PLANT) is a total bogus law anyway and there is no way a intelligent person could consider it to be DANGEROUS!


Quote:

without laws there is danger to every citizen.


Ironically enough it is laws like that, that our dangerous to us citizens. There are too many people in jail over stupid shit like selling and smoking weed and too many people not in jail when they are commiting horrendous "crimes."

And finally, FUCK YOU. Your stupid as fuck for believing that your govn't gives a shit about you.
Post Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:03 pm
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Mojo the helper monkey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1304
Location: California
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I found these figures startling:

The US spends $40 Billion on the War on Drugs. 3/4 of which goes to law enforcement and 1/4 of which goes to treatment and education.

The conservative RAND corporation came up with these figures indicating that treatment and education for drug problems is:
7 times more cost effective than arrests.
10 times more cost effective on drugs entering the country.
23 times more effective than attacking drugs at the source (like our spraying of cocoa crops in Colombia).

60% of prisoners in American jails are there on non-violent drug charges. 700,000 arrests were made last year on marijuana charges.

The entire war on drugs just seems completely excessive and goes against any logic.
Post Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:08 pm
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PHiZ
banned by kHill


Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 6545
Location: CT
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Seriously fingerprints are fucking useless. How often do detectives in the real world take prints? It's not TV. Maybe if you rob a bank, or kill somone....

Now facial recognition technology, it's accomplished via a videocamera, and they can get you ANYWHERE basically, and track you with more videocameras.

Now that is scary. http://archive.aclu.org/issues/privacy/facial_recognition_faq.html

-PHiZ
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:41 am
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excellrec



Joined: 11 Jul 2002
Posts: 1580
Location: Minneapolis
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I would be pissed off to.

Generally i find lying to be a poor way of getting things done, i commend your honesty (even if you did try to play it off like you thought it was a bad idea).

Good news is..... who fucking cares if they have your fingerprints.
sure maybe it was unpleasant having them taken, but unless you plan to commit crimes it matters very little that they have them, and if you do plan to put they're knowledge of your fingerprints to use, then you can only blame yourself.

I know authorties are horrible to deal with, and that all this should be dealt with on a larger scale .....but until then. Police intimidate, thats how they get alot of things done (from my old experiences) . if you dont withstand, you get pushed around, if they're isn't much at stake then choose your battles, i think you handled the situation well.
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:48 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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Drunken Friar wrote:
want anymore cheese with that whine?

and messiah carey....I am very happy that MY country, the great united states of america, land of the free, home of the brave, good ol' red white and blue does give a fuck about the drug trade, without laws (and i would have to say that this example is pretty clear cut that the border officers were well within their rights) there is danger to every citizen. I know you are all on this "oh i dont believe in countries" shit. But you are gonna have to deal with it. It has been this way since the first civilizatons came about.


Heh.

So you care about "your" country. I'm glad. You let the citizens do a bunch, or do you like to oppress them with ridiculous laws regarding drugs?

Yes, you are correct. I have to deal with it, and if you look at the post I made that's exactly what I'm saying. It is warranted. My world doesn't work unless most of the people are on board, and most of you don't want the responsibility of true freedom - so until then, yes I'll have to work within the confines of what I'm allowed to have in "your" country.

So we agree on the current situation, just our vision of the future differs - that's all. Don't let your pride for your country let you overlook that I said pretty much what you did in a different way - and let's stick to border policy.

Let's a assume that I call your country mine as well. Now, I'm not proud of "my" country being all up in homeboy's face getting his prints if he's the citizen of ANOTHER nation. If there is a clear and present danger that he presents, I expect that officer to do everything in his power to protect the citizens of this section of dirt over, of course, the citizens of a patch of dirt that lies due north. This wasn't the case. Had he searched the vehicle and found something, we'd be having a different conversation. I don't believe I want to be represented at the border as Americans being meatheads that condemn before they investigate (Unlike what people probably think of Guantanamo Bay, right? Ha.).

That's the problem I have with this. How "I'm" represented as a citizen of "my" country by people who...well...alienated isn't even a strong enough word for most of us.

- Shane
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:14 am
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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FireFly wrote:
By the way, their have been laws long before we were subjected to this "civilization" but they were not laws written by man. They were laws that actually KEPT order. These were laws that were maintaining harmony through out the planet but were broken when Man started trying to become like God.


Dude, I was pretty sympathetic with you up until this point. When you start talking about the rule of nature and stuff like that... you're on your own. Sorry. Good luck.
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:47 am
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Rhino



Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 4798
Location: Square of Despair
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Im curious to know what the scenario would be for the same situation to happen but for someone coming from the US into Canada.
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:08 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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The_Rhino wrote:
Im curious to know what the scenario would be for the same situation to happen but for someone coming from the US into Canada.


Trying not to sound biased, I'd say that it would NOT have gone that way. Mainly I mean I seriously doubt that they would of bothered with the prints.

Plus it was pretty funny the contrast of American guards and the Canadian guards. The Americans were all either built of fat. They were CONSTANTLY on the defence. They all had clean hair cuts and where clean shaven. Not to mention they had this HUGE picture of their leader hanging up on the wall like a those pictures you see of Fidel or Saddam.

When I walked into the Canadia immagration I was greeted by this tall lanky motherfucker with a long pony tail and sporting half a smile (not bad). I also talked to another skinny dude who looked like he was 12. Not very intimidating. But do you have to be intimidating to do your job well?

I'm not too sure on the policies of allowing Americans with records into the country but I know that Americans are more worried about allowing convicted drug dealers into their country from Montreal then Canadians are worried about convicted Vermonters comming in. Montreal grows the most indoor weed in (either Canada or North America, I forgot). Plus the city is plagued with organized crime.

Jesse, I thought that science was something that you believed in. Ever heard of something called "The peacekeeping law" or "The law of limited competition"? Anyway, doesn't matter. I guess I gotta fight this battle without you, hehe.
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:30 am
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triptik



Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 161
Location: Balmer, Merlin
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one thing....

i know that in the usa you get the shit off your record after 3 years, hence if canada is similar then you should not even have a record. even if it's not the case then you could have pulled it off cause you could have told cops that it was what you thought. in any case, i had no idea that kids who go see a hip hop concert were terrorists and that your criminal record goes accross borders!

i am not american and when i got back in the usa after visiting family for the holidays i was surprised at the prints and pics shit..... then i thought, oh, well, it's cool because after all i will be staying for awhile and basically living there. why would they do that for the fuckers who come to a hip hop concert for a few hours is beyond me. then when you think about it, and look around the airport you realize all these computers and cameras are made by Dell........ Dell is from TX...... bush is from TX...... there are cameras and finger print shit all throughout the airports and roadports yet police stations do not have a central bank of info where they and the other enforcement agencies can compare and contrast fingerprints and photos. hence all this shit is useles. i am pissed off also because firefly is CANADIAN, not north korean or syrian.....

on a side note, when the usa started doing the shit at airports the brazilians were on the list of ppl who will get searched and fingerprinted and shit. so when they heard about it they said that they will be doing the same thing to all americans who go to brazil. the usa stopped harrassing brazilians.
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:40 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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^^^^haha, figures.


Quote:

know that in the usa you get the shit off your record after 3 years, hence if canada is similar then you should not even have a record. even if it's not the case then you could have pulled it off cause you could have told cops that it was what you thought. in any case


That's how I heard it was for here too. And I did tell them that but they said, "It doesn't matter, you still have to fill out these papers (which I have never heard about and had no clue where to get them) and pay the fee"

Just in case anyone is curious (and since I have nothing to do) allow me to type out what the paper says:

"You must submit the following items to support your application for advance permission to enter the united states as a nonimmigrant (form I-192). You are advised that the procssing time is a between 120 and 180 days from the date your completed application is received. Unless otherwise noted, all documents must be originals and must be in English or English translation. You will be advised in writing as soon as a decision had been made in your case. YOU MUST WAIT IN CANADA WHILE THIS APPLICATION IS PENDING. ALL INQUIRIES SHOULD BE MADE IN WRITING TO ADDRESS BELOW. TELEPHONE INQUIRIES CANNOT BE ACCOMMODATED.

1. Form I-192 must be submitted fully completed, in duplicate, and both forms signed by you.

2. Form G-325A must be fully completed and signed by you.

2. (must be a typo ha) Applicant fingerprint chart FD-258, which is not included, must be fully completed, in duplicate and done by a U.S. port of Entry. If you do not reside near a port of entry, fingerprints can be done by a U.S. consular office or U.S. military installation. ($50.00 fee for fingerprints). (okay, what the fuck is this shit. . . anyway.)

4. You must complete fingerprint chart C-216c and forward to the RCMP to obtain a copy of your official record. RCMP prosessing fee for criminal record verification is 26.75 CDN funds, made payable to the reciver General of Canada. Payment must be by a certified check or money order. ANy request not accompanied by the full remittance will be returned b y the RCMP to the sender. Fingerprint Chart C-216C can be mailed to: Commissioner of RCMP,...... or may be express mailed to:....

5. Proof of your Canadian citizenship or landed immigrant status. Copy of your Canadian license.

6. Two letters from reputable members of the community in which you reside (other then relatives as to your character and reputation.) HAHAHA!!!

7. A current letter of emplyment from your employer indicating your occupation and length of employment. If your duties require you to enter the U.S., it must be so stated in the letter, including how long and how frequently you will need to enter. If you are self employed, submit a letter describing your employment including salary or earnings. If you are a student or not currently emplyed, plese state in writing.

8. A fee of 195.00 must be paid for filing this application. DO NOT MAIL CASH. Payment by check or money order must be drawn on a U.S. financial institution and by payable in U.S. funds...

9. The official record from the court of arrest, plea indictment, conviction, and the sentence for each and every crime committed.

10. A letter, in your own words, signed and dated by you, explaining the circumstances leading to your inadmissibility. This should include all criminal offenses with which you have been charged, the sentence you recived and date and place of any refusals of entry ito the united states. A description of a drug viloation should include the type of and amount of drug.

11. If you are seeking admission for medial reaons, plese describe the treatment, where and from whom it will be obtained; what financial arrangements will be made for payment of services, and the date you need to enter the U.S... Also, establish that satisfactore treatment cannot be obtained outside the U.S.

Buch of bullshit. They want to charge me $50 bucks for taking me fingerprints.
Post Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:04 pm
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