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Bill Maher on Johnny Cash:
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FoJaR's account is broken



Joined: 25 Aug 2003
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so cry me a river has more aesthetic, it's more plesant to the ears... theres something to be said for that.

but it doesnt compare to hurt, ya dig?
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:01 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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Quote:

it also says alot that you write in that 'nelly style'.


Irony son.

I'm outta here. I'm not getting dragged into another one of these debates with you.


Last edited by Dee on Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:02 am
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Sage Francis
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No, man. I'm sorry.

the simplicity, rawness, poignancy and honesty of Johnny Cash singing Hurt makes it a better song than Cry Me a River. I enjoy it more. I think it is better.

and when all is said and done, most music lovers will agree.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:03 am
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hugh grants hooker
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djdee2005 wrote:
I'm not getting dragged into another one of these debates with you.


getting 'dragged' in? who dragged? we are debating what YOU said.

also why is it with me? didnt you notice that its sorta been 2 on 2?

you freak. bust out your 'everybody vs hgh' picture then cry yourself to sleep thinking someone thought it was clever. ass.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:05 am
 
futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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wow. People aren't seriously debating "Cry Me A River" vs. Cash singin "Hurt"? I mean I like "Cry Me A River" and all...but c'mon. you've got to be kidding me.

And when you factor in the respective videos for the songs...in one you've got Justin Timberlake getting back at britney spears, and in the other you've got Johnny Cash's entire life...hmmm...tough decision. I can see the problem.

There are things that Cash does just with his voice in that song that convey a depth that you could never write a lyric for. Timberlake does not have that in him and he probably will never. "Cry Me A River" is kind of glossed over celebrity life, whereas "Hurt" is the real rawness of living. Even a five year old could listen to that song and on some level understand the humanness of that song.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:16 am
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Bandini
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Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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The Hurt video moved me emotionally, as I'm sure it did most people with a pulse. For the most part, music videos don't do that these days. I look at that video as one of the best visual compliments to a song I have ever seen. It is a work of art. For it to lose to ANYTHING is absolute bullshit. Fuck those awards.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:17 am
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
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How did my Bill Maher post turn into a Cry Me A River vs. Hurt thread?

Wow.

Johnny Cash vs. Justin?

Give me a fucking break.

abacus
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:25 am
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Dee



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There are a lot of corny value judgements being made here. For the last time, I am not comparing Justin and Johnny Cash, nor have I questioned Cash's clearly more important career. I have merely said, comparing "Cry Me a River," which you'll recall is NOT PURELY a PRODUCT of Timberlake's, and "Hurt," which is a good cover of an asstastic song, that "Cry Me A River" is a better track.

There's a lot of bullshit "authenticity issues" that are holding a lot of you from accepting the idea that this song is legitimately good. Let me remind you all: "I Want you Back" by the Jackson 5 was pop boy band "garbage" when it was released. It was hyped commercialism, a product of Motown's recent move to hollywood, the product of a commercially designed boy band. But the song is fucking awesome. Because looking back on it now, we see the song in more of a vacuum. In 20 years, we'll be looking at these songs in a vacuum, and we'll see this cover done by an aging artist of a Nine inch Nails song, and we'll hear a great pop song.
It is my opinion that Cry Me A River is the better song. For the final fucking time, I am NOT comparing Timberlake and Cash; I will continue to defend Timberlake as an artist, but I certainly don't think he compares with JCash. But if you compare both of their songs in a vacuum, I think Cry Me A River is more important, more interesting, more entertaining, and overall a better song.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:11 am
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futuristxen



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ok, but what does the Jackson 5 have to do with how good or bad "Cry Me A River" is? Can you explain your reasoning for going beyond just saying you like it more, and saying it is a better song?

And I doubt that after a long time, people are going to remember NIN. I bet even now there are plenty of people now who heard hurt and didn't even know it was a cover. To me, it's just like Otis Redding or Sam Cooke covering some one elses song. You make it your own. Cash made this song his own, and it works outstandingly well. So far your only arguement against Hurt is that it's a NIN song, and you obviously don't like NIN.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:45 am
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Dee



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As far as why its a better song - How can I quantify that? I think its a better song. I think its incredibly produced, I think the music is ridiculously good, I think his voice is appropriate for it, and, unlike the lyrics to "hurt," its not pretentious or overbearing.
Not that I think JCash is either of those things; but the lyrics to "hurt" are inane.
"I wear this crown of [thorns] on my liars chair."

Come on.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:51 am
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LuvSpeakeasy



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johnny yuma wrote:
you kid, are an idiot.

NOTHING timberlake ever has, is doing, or will do can POSSIBLY be compared to ANYTHING johnny cash has done. johnny cash threw away songs that were better than timberlakes bullshit.

i will take it a few steps further... you cant even seriously compare anything done by timberlake to anything done by ANYONE who creates their music BY THEMSELVES!

tell timberlake to get rid of his writers, superproducers, dance choreographers (sp?), and GHOST writers... THEN we'll see whats left. a skinny, nerdy, rich, disney kid with no talent. just a halfway cute voice. cute voices are a dime a dozen.


i listened to cash's hurt once when i saw the video on mtv. i did not feel it at all, and i did not enjoy it. i've listened to cry me a river, i wouldn't say i FEEL it, but i enjoy it. i'd rather listen to something i enjoy than something i don't. and no one is comparing johnny cash to timberlake as an artist, just that one fucking song. you don't have to be so offended. i've never heard anything else by cash, so i can't make an opinion of him as a whole artist. but i have heard both those songs, and cry me a river is a lot more enjoyable. that's it. you don't have to read so much into one post man..damn.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:01 am
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hugh grants hooker
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holy shit some people just dont get music.

you think 'hurt' has some holier than though feel to it? haha

it about how he's a big fuckup and if you give him enough time you'll realize that he's not the 'god' that everyone makes him out to be... pay attention and you'll see that he makes mistakes, lies, and hurts everyone. jeez... did you even listen to it, or was cry me a river playing to loud on your walkman?

you know that aesop interview everyone liked where he kept saying "i'm not this genius everyone says i am. i'm a fuckin idiot"? well, thats what this song is doing also.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:15 am
 
Sage Francis
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johnny yuma wrote:
you know that aesop interview everyone liked where he kept saying "i'm not this genius everyone says i am. i'm a fuckin idiot"? well, thats what this song is doing also.



no. no.
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:39 am
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hugh grants hooker
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you dont think the song is an apology for being a big screw up and feeling like he's not what everyone says he is?

or are you just disagreeing with the artist i referenced?
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:40 am
 
duke_city



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djdee2005 wrote:
As far as why its a better song - How can I quantify that? I think its a better song. I think its incredibly produced, I think the music is ridiculously good, I think his voice is appropriate for it, and, unlike the lyrics to "hurt," its not pretentious or overbearing.
Not that I think JCash is either of those things; but the lyrics to "hurt" are inane.
"I wear this crown of [thorns] on my liars chair."

Come on.


The fact you didn't catch the lyrics change shows me how closely you listen to music.

Cash changed "I wear my crown of shit" to "I wear this crown of thorns"

Johnny Cash - "Hurt" is infinitely better and will stand the test of time light years beyond "Cry me a River". By you proposing the converse that shows extremely bad taste on your part.

Either that or you never actually listened to "Hurt"

Brian


Last edited by duke_city on Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:16 am
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