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Question for Luke and Doctrine (very civil)
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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August Spies wrote:
There was a reason I asked Luke and Doctrine to respond, they actual make coherent posts.

Let me summarize for you:
Most protestants believe in the virgin birth.
Doctrine, a protestant, says it is biblical fact.

so we are NOT debating "catholic dogma" but "christian dogma"


Rubbish.

Your article specifically states "Catholic dogma."

No Christian would ever consider such a thing as truth. I already provided scripture to back this up.

Brian
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:35 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Dalls you opion on catholics is noted. All i'm saying is, this thread isn't about catholicism.

No Christian would ever consider such a thing as truth. I already provided scripture to back this up.

are you calling Doctrine (and the majority of americans) not-christians? You know, he quoted scripture too. (NOTE: the "catholic dogma" phrase was in relation to Mary's assumption to heaven, read closer)

Really it might be more intresting if Doctrine and Dallas debate each other on this, since they are so vehement with their opposing stances.
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:37 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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August Spies wrote:
Dalls you opion on catholics is noted. All i'm saying is, this thread isn't about catholicism.

No Christian would ever consider such a thing as truth. I already provided scripture to back this up.

are you calling Doctrine (and the majority of americans) not-christians?

Really it might be more intresting if Doctrine and Dallas debate each other on this, since they are so vehement with their opposing stances.


If you bothered to read what I and Doctrine have been typing you'd realize we both disagree with the majority opinion in your little article that Mary never had any children after Jesus and we both agree that she was a virgin up until she gave birth.

Brian
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:40 pm
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
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I am hear to answer August Spies, nobody else unless it fits on this topic...Which I must say is a good one...Let's try not to go off on tangents...
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:41 pm
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell
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"and we both agree that she was a virgin up until she gave birth."

I know what you are trying to say but I died laughing when I read this...
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:42 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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well if you had botherd reading you would notice that no one was talking about Mary's children after birth, so you have been ranted about it for no reason.

Seriously dallasboy, your read comprehension leaves something to be desired.


Last edited by August Spies on Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:42 pm
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Doctrine



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
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People people people...Pull it back together...
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:44 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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August Spies wrote:
well if you had botherd reading you would notice that no one was talking about Mary's children after birth, so you have been ranted about it for no reason.


August must I school you on what a virgin is?

Mary never had sex with Joseph until after Jesus was born. Providing evidence of children shoots down the 83% American opinion that she died a virgin.

Brian
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:44 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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dallasboy:

we are not talking about the "virgin death" but the "virgin birth."
The question is wether she was a virigin BEFORE giving birth to jesus, not afterwards. You have been arguing something unrelated to this thread.

Providing evidence of children shoots down the 83% American opinion that she died a virgin.

This was NOT what the poll asked. Read closer.


Quote:

the earliest references to Mary (like Mark's gospel, the first to be written, or Paul's letter to the Galatians) don't mention anything unusual about the conception of Jesus.


we are not talking about her death here, but of Jesus' conception.
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:49 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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seriously dallasboy, if you aren't even going to read the OP to threads please dont' side track them for two pages over a totally different argument.
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:55 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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First sentence of the link you posted.

Quote:


"Today marks the Roman Catholics' Feast of the Assumption, honoring the moment that they believe God brought the Virgin Mary into Heaven."



So if they believe she was brought into Heaven a virgin then that means they also think she never had any children later on after Jesus.

I provided scripture to debunk this.

The poll topic is very ambigous, it doesn't specify at which moment did they ask was she considered a virgin (before, after or during birth?). Catholics in fact believe she died a virgin. I'm not sure about Protestants.

Brian
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:59 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Brian:
yes the article talks about both the virgin birth and mary's assumption to heaven, but this thread is about the virgin birth.

"ost Biblical scholars regard the evidence for the Virgin Birth, and for Mary's assumption into Heaven (which was proclaimed as Catholic dogma only in 1950), as so shaky that it pretty much has to be a leap of faith."

again, please read my OPs if you are going to respond.
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:01 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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August Spies wrote:
Brian:
yes the article talks about both the virgin birth and mary's assumption to heaven, but this thread is about the virgin birth.

"ost Biblical scholars regard the evidence for the Virgin Birth, and for Mary's assumption into Heaven (which was proclaimed as Catholic dogma only in 1950), as so shaky that it pretty much has to be a leap of faith."

again, please read my OPs if you are going to respond.


Everything I typed was completely relevant to the topic at hand. You act as if I pulled information that wasn't related at all, it is related.

If not to clarify to educate.

Brian
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:07 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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well this is my thread and i was asking about the virgin birth.

but fine whatever, your education is noted.

back to the topic.
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:10 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 3208
Location: San Diego,CA
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August Spies wrote:
Brian:
yes the article talks about both the virgin birth and mary's assumption to heaven, but this thread is about the virgin birth.

"ost Biblical scholars regard the evidence for the Virgin Birth, and for Mary's assumption into Heaven (which was proclaimed as Catholic dogma only in 1950), as so shaky that it pretty much has to be a leap of faith."

again, please read my OPs if you are going to respond.


In your post that you typed you wrote "why do so many christian scholars think it is?"

which is in fact wrong. No Christian scholar would attempt to tackle a tired and prvioulsy disproven issue 500 years ago.

You meant Biblical scholars, hence my digression to show you the difference.

Brian
Post Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:13 pm
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